just john Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 ''Fine Madam, Is the car outside, just to confirm the mileage'' [:-))]As I read the requirements as posted by Gosub (Good man) it's irrelevant, since as long as the car is taxed, insured and registered as personal export in UK it can be legally driven around for the period until the mileage is reached, so no prob?[geek] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosub Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Sorry John, I think you may have misread it, that only applies to cars exported outside the EU. Unless I have misread it[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Oops missed the ''outside the EU'' bit,[:$] well before we get too complicated or go to plan B (buy the barchetta and look around later) or plan C (extended UK touring hol), what is wrong with buying a UK taxed vehicle, insuring it to drive around while you complete light changes and formalties to register a month later with the appropriate mileage? Have I missed something else?[8-)]PS Sweets, only kidding about the high maintenance, [kiss] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I've posted this before: there IS a system for dealing with the export of cars that are already registered in the UK but which are less than 6 months old/less than 6K Kilometres:The narrative below assumes that you are a private individual, non-VAT registered, purchasing a car which is to be exported. Ifyou purchase a car in the UK that is less than 6 months old and hasdone less than 6000 Km as a brand-new car, then you can register itunder the "new means of transport" scheme detailed in HMRC notice 728,and so long as you export it within 2 months, you will not have to payUK VAT on the purchase. You will, however, have to pay the VAT at theappropriate rate in France or wherever you export it. Normally, whenyou do that, you will be issued with a temporary registration thatgenerally begins with X - eg XA08ABC. The relevant form to be used forthe VAT declaration if Form 411Now, what happens if you want tobuy a car in the UK, for export, that has already been registered butwhich is still less than 6 months old and has done less than 6000 Km?There are two situations:If the organisation that you are buying itfrom is a VAT-registered business, then they can still go down the sameroute and supply you with the car at a VAT-free rate, using the sameform 411.If you are buying the car from a private individual who isnot VAT-registered, then it is possible for the SELLER to obtain arefund of the VAT that has already been paid on the original purchaseof the car. HMRC needs to be informed at least 14 days ahead of theeffective date of the sale, but this route IS possible.You stillhave to pay VAT in France or wherever it is to which you are exportingthe car, but it does mean that you do not end up paying VAT twice.RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Pretty much what I said some time ago - better written tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote user="just john "]''Fine Madam, Is the car outside, just to confirm the mileage'' [:-))][/quote]Answer - No, at the moment it's in xxxxx, you name it.[quote user="gosub"]Maybe, because you would have to sign a déclaration sur l'honneur[:)][/quote]Yes but IF they suspected you had fibbed how could they prove it ?Does it even say anywhere that a car actually has to be in country to register it ?I'm just asking questions out of idle curiosity to know what mechanism there is to stop anybody cheating, and to be crystal clear by 'anybody' I do NOT mean me because short of a life altering lottery win I will NEVER be buying or importing a vehicle under 6m or 6k, I can think of far better ways of wasting money than buying new or nearly new cars [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Sorry, unnecessary posting.Pickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosub Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Sorry John, I think you may have misread it, that only applies to cars exported outside the EU. Unless I have misread it[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Being slow off the mark I am failing to understand the subtle and perhaps even unsubtle references given before.I understand (I think) the UK VAT exemption but are some of you perhaps alluding to the possibility that the purchaser might be a bit tardy in registering the car in France and when finally doing so, it having a higher mileage may fortuitously not be liable for French TVA?I seem to recall going to the Hôtel des impôts to get a tax declaration but my car was old, is there a cut off point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Do keep up, JR.....[;-)]This thread has progressed from offering helpful advice on purchasing a tax free UK car for export through to how to get away with committing VAT fraud...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 That's decided then............no nearly new car of under 6 months old. But, if it's OVER 6 months old, then it doesn't matter what the mileage is, right?Am I keeping up or still driving around in fog?[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Oops, sorry, double post! Hey, I thought the software was supposed to stop that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 A vehicle ceases to be a new means of transport six months and one day after first entry into service, providing it has also travelled more than 6000 kilometres. (Source: HMRC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote user="Sunday Driver"]This thread has progressed from offering helpful advice on purchasing a tax free UK car for export through to how to get away with committing VAT fraud......[/quote]Not so but I can see how those of a suspicious and accusing mind might persuade themselves otherwise [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote user="Sunday Driver"] A vehicle ceases to be a new means of transport six months and one day after first entry into service, providing it has also travelled more than 6000 kilometres. (Source: HMRC) [/quote]Might have known they'd be a catch, SD![:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote user="Sunday Driver"] A vehicle ceases to be a new means of transport six months and one day after first entry into service, providing it has also travelled more than 6000 kilometres. (Source: HMRC)[/quote]Thank you again for your reliable info SD; however at the risk of being pedantic, could you elucidate, at what point is the 6moin/6K kilometre info counted, is it at the point of reregistering in France or is it at the point of purchase? Obviously there is a relevant difference, in collecting and bringing the vehicle from its point of purchase (with or without extended touring[;-)]) to its time of registering in France? and what is the position in between the two events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote user="just john "][quote user="Sunday Driver"] A vehicle ceases to be a new means of transport six months and one day after first entry into service, providing it has also travelled more than 6000 kilometres.(Source: HMRC)[/quote]Thank you again for your reliable info SD; however at the risk of being pedantic, could you elucidate, at what point is the 6moin/6K kilometre info counted, is it at the point of reregistering in France or is it at the point of purchase? Obviously there is a relevant difference, in collecting and bringing the vehicle from its point of purchase (with or without extended touring[;-)]) to its time of registering in France? and what is the position in between the two events?[/quote]The whole point of the "new means of transport" business is so that a vehicle which is susceptible to VAT on re-registration abroad can be purchased without VAT in the UK, thus avoiding being VAT'd twice. Hence, the 6 months starts when the car is first registered in the UK and the 6K Kilometres is as recorded by the odometer. If the vehicle is re-registered abroad beyond the 6 months/6K Kilometres, then the UK VAT that has been reclaimed or not paid has been incorrectly reclaimed or not paid and becomes payable. The forms that you are required to sign to do this are quite clear in this respect. Thus if you purchase the car in the UK at less than 6 months old/less than 6K Kilometres VAT-free and then re-register it in France when it is older than 6 months/more than 6K Kilometres recorded, then you become liable to pay/repay the UK VAT. Now, thinking about who HMRC would go after: HMRC would recoup the VAT from the seller. The seller would then presumably want to recoup the money from the purchaser. Next issue is the documentation that you need to supply to the French authorities in order to register the vehicle; IIRC, on such a young vehicle, the authorities would expect to see the original invoices - which would indicate whether or not VAT has been paid. Again IIRC, it is up to you to prove that VAT has been paid on the vehicle.RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Thank you for the clarification Pickles, the penny has finally dropped.In these troubled times I am surprised that some enterprising dealer has not negotiated with the manufacturers to supply LHD vehicles in the UK.Could one by the same process equally buy a VAT free (sic) car in say Belgium or Holland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 JR - If you read my earlier post you will find that the following Manufacturers will provide taxfree LHD cars :Citroen, BMW/Mini, VW Group, Mercedes, Fiat, Honda, Vauxhall and Renault.Of interest is that FORD will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote user="J.Rs gone native"]In these troubled times I am surprised that some enterprising dealer has not negotiated with the manufacturers to supply LHD vehicles in the UK.[/quote]Lots of UK dealers will supply a new LHD vehicle. They just have to be asked.[quote user="J.Rs gone native"]Could one by the same process equally buy a VAT free (sic) car in say Belgium or Holland?[/quote]Yes. Note that in some countries the car is supplied on an export plate and comes with limited-duration Europe-wide insurance.Incidentally, going off-topic from new to second-hand cars, Germany can be a good source of decent-quality used cars at better prices than you will find in France.RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Apologies all, Fraud is not my style but it did appear a legitimate course might exist and thank you Pickles for pointing out the devil in the detail. Back to the Barchetta, always my preference over a tin-top in the summertime anyway[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 ...I am sure that at one time you could avoid tax on a car if it only had the one seat. I wonder if this is still true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote user="Dog"]...I am sure that at one time you could avoid tax on a car if it only had the one seat. I wonder if this is still true?[/quote]The only exemption now is a "vehicle constructed or adapted fora disabled person. For more information on VAT relief for people withdisabilities see Notice 701/7 VAT reliefs for disabled people".The old invalid tricycles only had one seat IIRC ...However, I'm now wondering if you are alluding to the old "car tax" which was levied on all new car sales until relatively recently - the last time I recall it was about 500 gbp. RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I ran the Barchetta idea past the accountant, her reaction was very strange......''Its Horrible'' some women have no taste (in cars anyway).For interest, KIA will not sell a LHD model in UK, even though they are manufactured in Europe, protectionism?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Pickles, I don't mind paying VAT, that is, UK VAT (at 15%?) on a car bought in the UK. Don't particularly want to pay French VAT (19.6%?) as that would defeat the purpose of buying in the UK, bearing in mind there would be the cost of possible light replacement, French registration, trip over to the UK, not to mention extended holiday and touring (as per JJ's suggestion!)So, revising my earlier notions, the car will now have to be more than 6 months old AND have more than 6k kilometres on the clock. Will be buying a near-wreck at this rate!Steve, unlike your accountant, I think the Barchetta quite beautiful and I wouldn't mind having one myself but, alas, I don't have "frittering away" money. Just waiting for the devis for repair of my crashed car and having to decide whether it makes more sense to buy another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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