Some Cautionary tales

[NormanH]

Not only in France, it is true, but the general issues are true here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/broken-dreams-what-happens-when-a-new-life-abroad-turns-into-a-nightmare-1792530.html

[Quillan]

I feel sorry for the people concerned but can't help thinking that perhaps their planning or their actions were not well thought out and that perhaps in the case of the campsite they did not do their homework well. I can't talk about the countries other than France as I don't know anything about them.

I see some people in the article get their clients mainly from the UK. I have said it many a time you can't look at just the UK. You have to spend as much time and effort (and money) advertising in France and other countries. To rely purely on the UK for clients/guests is a grave mistake. I wonder if the people who bought the run down gite complex and campsite did much investigating in to how much it would cost to renovate and budgeted for the cost. I see they have a .co.uk website with a complicated tariff system for campers and high quality photo's that take ages to load. 

The couple with the chap who had a heart attack, well thats one of the reasons I am in France, coupled with the necessity to lead a less stressful life, I have had three plus a minor stroke and I find the healthcare here much better than anything I experienced in the UK. If you don't understand what you are being told then get an interpreter.

I am mindful of the couple who bought a house which caught fire a week after they moved in and it burnt to the ground. They had no insurance and when asked why they said something like 'we have been very busy and had been meaning to get round to it'.

Quite often I find there is a lot more to the story than what is told in the news papers and on TV.

Don't get me wrong, not everyone gets it wrong and many (if not the majority, lead a fantastic life, just like they dreamed here in France but sometimes something does happen that you can't possibly predict that means you have to give it up and go back to the UK.

 

[just john]

Sympathy is a given in these sort of cases, language is a complication but I can't help feeling that they would face similar decisions over business/recession problems in Cornwall or Keswick.

[Clair]

I don't know what to think...

I do get annoyed when I read things like "they are angry and frustrated that, despite all their hard

work and through no fault of their own, they are suffering" as an excuse for bad or inexistent research or preparation (if you don't want a baby, you do what's necessary).

You cannot plan for everything, but all the examples used to illustrate the article show they bear some responsibility for their current plight: bad timing of arrival and relying on a single nationality for business; lack of language and lack of contingency plan for health problems; lack of preparation and lack of contraception!

France is not paradise, nor is it hell.

Nothing is perfect anywhere and there's always a trade-off somewhere along the line. Most people grumble and just get on with it without blaming all their woes on others.

[Bluebell]

I too am amazed that people buying campsites and gîtes only seem to advertise to the British market. We started our gîte business late this year for various reasons; we had trouble with phone lines and accessing the internet, visits from family, too busy with our own house, etc. So we only started in July but because we advertised on French and German sites we have been fairly well booked since then. Also many French people book the week before whereas British people have more to arrange and tend to book months in advance and don't just want long weekends.

I felt sorry for the heart attack couple. The trouble with moving to the South of France you usually have no relatives or long term friends who can step into the breach and help out if something happens. You can't manage a Chambres d'Hôte single handed, far less gîtes as well. And if you have to start paying people that's the profit out of the window.

My advice to people is not to overreach themselves, both in buying a property that takes a lot of money and effort to maintain, or a holiday business that cannot be run short handed. Most people moving to France are of retirement age and should be winding down rather than taking on stressful challenges.

 

[Quillan]

Well I am glad I am not alone in my thoughts, I was getting a bit worried and thought people would start juming down my throat for passing such comments and appearing not to show much compassion (which I do a little I suppose, I hate to see people fail).

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Quillan"]

I am mindful of the couple who bought a house which caught fire a week after they moved in and it burnt to the ground. They had no insurance and when asked why they said something like 'we have been very busy and had been meaning to get round to it'.

 

[/quote]

With regard that, my notaire was mindful to tell me before buying my property that it must be insured the day the settlement takes place and that it's a legal requirement to do so.

Fortunately, we'd already organised insurance anyway as we were used to the Australian system whereby as soon as a contract goes unconditional, you must take out insurance on the property. If it were to burn down before settlement takes place, you'd still be legally bound to buy it for example.

But that's scary. First thought is always insurance, if only for the liability part, especially if it's a property in need of restoration.

[dave21478]

I take no joy in seeing anybody fail, but I dont have a massive amount of sympthy for any of those cases. Bad planning in some cases, others a victim of cicumstances....either way, there are hundreds of thousands going through exactly the same problems in UK. Being abroad doesnt make these cases special.

[NormanH]

Quillan "Quite often I find there is a lot more to the story than what is told in the news papers and on TV."

True.

I can speak with some authority about the so called 'Montpellier hospital' mentioned in the story about the couple with the hotel in Pézenas.

In fact it is an astonishingly large  complex of  teaching and research hospitals (CHU) with a staff who either host or attend international medical conferences, often in the USA as Montpellier has strong links over there.

Many of these conferences are given in English, and the research papers are published in English language journals

Not only have I been a patient there on several occasions, but I have taught English to some of the staff and their children.

Although my French is adequate, I have to virtually discourage them from using English, and could certainly discuss my problems with them if I needed to without using French.

How anybody could find themselves in the situation of non-communication in that particular establishment is frankly beyond me.

[Quillan]

I think Norman we may be talking two different things, I think she was talking about the nursing staff rather than the surgeons, doctors etc. Many people in the high end of the medical sector in France and likewise other occupations such as electronics, computer etc speak English although many claim they read it better than speak it. This is mainly, as you have suggested, that most of the worlds technical papers and research documentation are first written in the native language of the person concerned and then translated in to English for world wide publication.

Therefore, I can understand that she/they may have had problems understanding something a nurse might tell them but I am not so sure about the doctors etc. Personally my cardiologist whom I have used since I arrived in France speaks excellent English. I have to say I prefer him to talk to me in English because my French is not so good. Personally I think that many with 'O' level and probably 'A' level French would have problems understanding the technical terms he uses. It's not exactly day to day conversation pieces if you catch my drift.

Anyway if you cast all of that aside for a minute the answer to the persons problems was to get an interpreter if they were so worried. OK it might cost them a few bob but better safe than dead (might be an over statement but you know what I mean).

[Sprogster]

An average of two thirds of all start up businesses fail within five years, a risk that many people who start a business are blissfully unaware of.

Add to that issues such as unfamiliarity with the language and red tape and you can understand the extent to which the odds are stacked up against Brit expats setting up small businesses in Europe.

[NormanH]

I don't think that expats set up businesses.

They are employed by businesses or the civil service  at home and 'expatriated' to work abroad for a while.

Since we are talking about France I give the French reference:

http://www.ameli.fr/assures/droits-et-demarches/a-l-etranger/travail/vous-etes-expatrie.php

People who set up businesses are more often immigrants.

'La différence entre un expatrié et un immigré est que l'immigré

s'installe dans le pays de résidence, alors que l'expatrié y vient pour

une durée limitée dans le temps.'

[powerdesal]

[quote user="NormanH"]I don't think that expats set up businesses.
They are employed by businesses or the civil service  at home and 'expatriated' to work abroad for a while.

[/quote]

 

Not quite true Norman, Expats may of course be employed by 'home' business (wherever 'home' may be), civil service posted overseas are not realistically expats, they are in the same category as Military personnel on an overseas posting.

Expats are, strictly speaking, those who work in a country which is not their own and who have no intention of remaining in that country after employment ceases, they are not necessarily employed by an employer in their home country Of course you are correct in that people who take up 'permanent' residence in a country different to their 'own' country are immigrants.

 

source: Powerdesal, an expat for some 28 years and definitely not employed by a UK company.

[NormanH]

Ok I'd agree with that. After 28 years you must know what you are talking about [:)]

[Babbles]

I think if you have a health scare you re assess your life wether your in Pezenas or Preston and people seem to forget that if you have an independent business with no one to leave it too at some point you have to sell it, it doesn't mean its a bad business just its time to let go.

[Clair]

Another one (yes, it's in the Mail! [:D])

Au revoir - After years France, a family tells they're glad to be back in Britain

OMG! I never knew France was like that!

[NormanH]

Much more realistic view of France  than most, even if they suffered from the usual failure to research and prepare properly

Very perceptive on the 'BACs'[:)]

'The BACs insist on being called 'expats' rather than immigrants because,

of course, immigrants are one of the reasons they left the UK.'

and

'They also miss the point that having contributed almost nothing in

taxes to the French Government, they will hitherto be referred to by

the locals as 'bloody immigrants, abusing our healthcare system'.

[Théière]

[quote user="Clair"]Another one (yes, it's in the Mail! [:D])
Au revoir - After years France, a family tells they're glad to be back in Britain

OMG! I never knew France was like that!
[/quote]

That's Mel, from the other forum, Jonesenfrance

Wow she is going to write her blog into a book, Mel has a great sense of humour as anyone who followed her blog would know. Sure she does point out some funnies of the French systems but that Dailywail article has just been edited to sound like another moaning returner.

[Bluebell]

Ignorant is the word that sprang to mind and that is in the Yorkshire sense which means rather more than unknowing.

You would have thought these people would know that international removal firms can be engaged to take you back to the UK; they don't just fall off the planet when they get to Deepest France.

They remind me of the time I was staying on a lighthouse on a remote island in the Hebrides. A fellow guest arrived off a boat in high heels and a skirt, unaware that there was a long  trek across a peat bog with suitcase to get there. Like with this woman in the account, no idea what life was like out of the city.

I certainly wouldn't want to read a whole book of that rubbish.

[Celine]

I thought it was a very honest article.

I felt she was returning primarily due to the opportunities that exist for her children in the UK, not just academically but socially (cinema, shopping etc) too. It sounded like everything else she could have put up with and laughed at, but family needs come first.

[Théière]

Bluebell, don't be so quick to condemn, I have read a large amount of Mels blog, most of it hilarious to my sense of humour.

She writes about her life in France and is far from ignorant, that article is badly edited

[Bluebell]

Sorry Théière, I'm being too judgemental as usual.

Just in a bad mood as people messing me about re next weekend's booking. Accepted a booking for the minimum three days, but then it got whittled down to two than one day.  Now I've just got an email saying they are only coming if it's nice weather!

[Théière]

Totally understood Bluebell, fortunately the weather is going to excellent and it will only rain if the guests bring it with them [;-)]

[Clair]

[quote user="Bluebell"]They remind me of the time I was staying on a lighthouse on a remote island in the Hebrides. A fellow guest arrived off a boat in high heels and a skirt, unaware that there was a long  trek across a peat bog with suitcase to get there. Like with this woman in the account, no idea what life was like out of the city.

[/quote]

This reminds me of a Goodwood Revival weekend we attended a few years ago.

It had been raining solidly for a few days and the ground was completely sodden. We had a good giggle watching classy birds dressed for the boxes at Goodwood Races pulling their dainty designer heels out of the squelching mud!

[Maricopa]

[quote user="NormanH"]Much more realistic view of France  than most, even if they suffered from the usual failure to research and prepare properly
Very perceptive on the 'BACs'[:)]
'The BACs insist on being called 'expats' rather than immigrants because, of course, immigrants are one of the reasons they left the UK.'
and
'They also miss the point that having contributed almost nothing in taxes to the French Government, they will hitherto be referred to by the locals as 'bloody immigrants, abusing our healthcare system'. [/quote]

Thought you would like the BAC's Norman[:D]

However, as I accept I am in immigrant, I am not a BAC, I'm not a BB as I speak french well (so I am told), and I don't think I am twisted (hence not a BAT), what am I?[8-)]

I hope it was badly edited, as I thought it was just more tosh designed to sell a book.