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[quote user="Chief"][quote user="Marton"][quote user="Chief"]

[quote user="Marton"]Another one you could'nt make up.   The Mid Yorkshire NHS Trust are piloting a policy to turn Muslim patients beds towards Mecca.  As well as moving beds nurses must also provide fresh bathing water prior to each of the 5 daily prayer sessions at the hospital.   Shortage of nurses yet additional duties must be done.  MRSA superbugs, C.Diff, yet additional duties must be done.[:@][/quote]

Incorrect.  the hospital asked nurses to be aware that critically ill (on deaths doorstep) muslims may want to face mecca during theor final moments on this planet, and if a request was made, every effort should be made to accommodate the request.  Similarly, christians who requested pastoral services should also be accommodated wherever possible.  ut forget the christians, there are muslims we can slag off....

[/quote]

Fat Club member no doubt.

[/quote]

Is this a flippant attempt to dismiss the fact that you were wrong, as pointed out by another poster......[:)]

[/quote]

No flippant attempt at all.  The information was gained from a BBC newslink email not plucked from imagination, and Will ....the BBC must be part of the great uninformed too.   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshire/7127029.stm  

There are good and bad in all, but fat club members stoop so low as to use foul language on a forum.

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Am I missing something? Chief's report on the BBC article is spot on - patients in extremis could be moved to face Mecca - presumably they may spend their last moments praying, or taking heart from the orientation. Religious food restrictions will be observed.

Can you tell me what is wrong with giving someone food which satisfies their religious requirements - or do we insist that Jews eat pork and Buddhists eat meat? Or are Moslems different?

Or do we just treat non-white people as 'different' and rub their faces in it to the last moment of their life?

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[quote user="Marton"]

There's more changes.......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7156661.stm

Nothing quite beat the aroma of chocolate in York when you passed the factory, sadly gone now.

[/quote]

But why do you care so much, Marton?  You've decided to leave the UK for France, so why do you feel such a need to rubbish the country you left and which presumably gave you an education, health care and employment while you were still living here?  You really don't have to justify your decision to move to France by denigrating the country many of us still live in and love. If I were living in France, I think I could find better ways to use my time than trawling the media for anti-UK stories.......  Ah well, chacun son gout  [8-)]

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............ If I were living in France, I think I could find better ways to use my time than trawling the media for anti-UK stories.......  Ah well, chacun son gout  [8-)]

No-one trawls anywhere KathyF.   We receive BBC newslink emails daily.     The thread was topical for the time it began and the post you chose to copy was emphasising another change in the UK, nothing derogatory.       Many more threads on LF to read if you wish.   Whilst I am in France, family and friends remain in the UK and I've had family affected by the ruling of no nativity play being allowed and had friends affected with MRSA and C.Diff.    Yes, I do care about the UK but more for friends and family who are living  there with the changes being forced on them.    This thread was bumped to the top by someone who chose to make an obscene comment on a post done weeks before, that was his/her choice, the same as its your choice to write what you have, we each have opinions, that means me as well.

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Oh yes indeed everyone should be able to express their opinioun!

There is no doubt that the UK has beautiful countryside and there are still parks in London and momumental history.There is lots to do in London...there is a buzz...there is always a music venue, a museum, art gallery and it evolves away from boredom.

Having lived there for all of my years I can say that all that is not enough!The abundance;the great capacity for high earnings and rich pickings can not compensate for the lack of space and the temporary thoughts behind the leadership and the lack of organisation within hospitals....this has been growing over many years and ....I feel is now reaching a cresendo.

Life in France is not a doddle for the French or for her new arrivals.

This is a big topic!

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[quote user="Dick Smith"]Am I missing something? Chief's report on the BBC article is spot on - patients in extremis could be moved to face Mecca - presumably they may spend their last moments praying, or taking heart from the orientation. Religious food restrictions will be observed.

Can you tell me what is wrong with giving someone food which satisfies their religious requirements - or do we insist that Jews eat pork and Buddhists eat meat? Or are Moslems different?

Or do we just treat non-white people as 'different' and rub their faces in it to the last moment of their life?
[/quote]

Brilliant post!  Can't agree with you more.  ALL should be treated with compassion and understanding because otherwise we, everyone of us, will be diminished as human beings.

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Could someone define what UK culture is for me? What am I supposed to think, feel or do? Revel in the 'glory' of the past or be proud of tea and digestives or perhaps point out the splendour of the Houses of Parliament and just how quaint are thatched cottages!

 I have a great debt of gratitude to those who gave their lives in combat in various campaigns but other than that, what's being British all about? Beats the hell out of me. I personally don't really give a stuff about the country. My Polish copine who has been in France for 20 plus years is horrified by my attitude, she guards her traditions and heritage with a vengeance..."but you're British" she says. Uh huh...I say.

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You're not going to believe this Chris but I do so agree.  I'm going to get a stream of abuse for saying this but I regularly think that "national pride" is  over rated.  What is so great about the fact that, for instance, an "English" team playing some sport or other, beats one from another part of the globe?  Surely sport should be about the skill and the spectacle, regardless of the origins of its participants.  .

When I'm at sports car race meetings, I regularly hide from the parts of the crowd sporting union jack shorts and t-shirs over their beer bellies!

There are certainly some parts of British culture which I admire and enjoy (the musical tradition springs to mind), but this isn't because it's British, per se, simply because I admire it.  I'd like to see it preserved and to watch it develop, but it's not its Britishness but its quality and value which is important to me.

Heads for bunker!

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................but it's not its Britishness but its quality and value which is important to me.

 The quality and value which is disappearing down the toilet rapidly.    5th of January, yet the news tells us of yet another kniving murder this year.  Yes murder happens here, I know its not Eutopia, but the quality and value of life is rapidly disappearing in the UK and thats a great shame.

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Hang on...I found a few things that seem to be unusual here, perhaps it's my British upbringing (actually I'm English before I get lumped in with the Jocks, Taffs & Micks) I'm the first to give my seat up on public transport for someone less able than myself and I hold open doors for people and help old folk when I can! All's not lost! 
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...............I'm the first to give my seat up on public transport for someone less able than myself and I hold open doors for people and help old folk when I can! All's not lost! 

Thats good to read, me too, and there will be more of us, but its thinning out and there's too little respect or caring now for it to be turned around.    Its the way of thinking "me, me, me and I don't give a jacks**t for anyone but me".     There are too many people on one little island, priorities are lost.

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Whoa, there's more...the crack of willow on leather as the batsmen puts the ball over the boundary rope...the unmistakable roar of a Spitfire as it scythes through the air gracefully and proudly...the centuries of history behind the lone Piper as he honours his fallen friends on some godforsaken faraway windswept hill...Horlicks...TVR...the faces of old warriors as they listen once more to The Last Post on remembrance day...Amanda Burton...
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[quote user="Marton"]

there's too little respect or caring now for it to be turned around.  Its the way of thinking "me, me, me and I don't give a jacks**t for anyone but me".  There are too many people on one little island, priorities are lost.[/quote]

Yet another wild generalisation, I'm afraid, Marton. [:(] Yes, I'm sure there are people and even sections of communities, especially in the deprived areas of our big cities, of whom this might be true, but you can't just tar a whole nation like that. I simply don't recognise what you say as truly representing any of the places I have lived in Britain and it certainly doesn't apply to Mid-Wales where I now live and the people I know here. Britain is still full of kind, helpful, neighbourly people, as well as having its share of the me-firsts. Both are part and parcel of all countries, including France......

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What a most interesting thread this has turned out to be!

I am, I must confess, bemused how advocates of the UK seem to be in denial at just how life has changed and how certain groups are intent on dominating British life style; sadly, aided and abetted by politicians of the moment.

As an example of this statement, yesterday, it came to my notice that Islamic Slaughter - Halal -  meat is now being supplied in food to a growing number of hospitals, prisons and schools: the stated justification being that it makes life simpler for the catering authorities in order that they do not offend the religious diktats of Muslims. Apparently, mothers whose kids attend a school in Oxford are outraged as the head teacher has bought in to this concept without firstly consulting the parents.

It is also apparent that one's perspective of current British life must be predicated by the area on lives in and/or, regularly experiences.

My own perspective must be based on my era of growing up in the early 50s: I find I can recapture much of this in rural France.

In the South West and East of England it is another matter entirely: as I again experienced on returning from France after New Year on the awful M20 and then A13.

Finally, there must be core reasons why so many Brits are leaving their motherland: and also core reasons why many resettle in France: quite obviously, human nature being what it is, most of us would justify our decision and thereby to a large or small degree, denigrate  the UK in certain aspects in support of our chosen strategy.

The effectiveness, stability, structure and balance of any society must naturally comprise a number of diverse and disparate facets, which include its economy, infrastructure and culture: thus many aspects have to be taken into account prior to making any value judgements and assertations.

In the same way some Francophiles do indeed wear rose coloured glasses when considering their adoptive home, it certainly seems as if some Brits herein, adopt similar rose coloured specs in their support of present day UK and the socially destabilising dynamics experienced at present, which are likely to persist and worse, increase during the next 25 years.

 

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

I am, I must confess, bemused how advocates of the UK seem to be in denial at just how life has changed and how certain groups are intent on dominating British life style; sadly, aided and abetted by politicians of the moment.

As an example of this statement, yesterday, it came to my notice that Islamic Slaughter - Halal -  meat is now being supplied in food to a growing number of hospitals, prisons and schools: the stated justification being that it makes life simpler for the catering authorities in order that they do not offend the religious diktats of Muslims.

[/quote]

How on earth do you equate accommodating the genuine needs of certain people who find themselves in a situation which denies them personal choice with domination of the British life style?

 

 

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I hope - GS and others - that you enjoy your lives in a rural France preserved in aspic as a replica of 1950s England, and which will never be marred by progress, Sarkozy, or exposure to other cultures (with the exception of the superior English language and customs of course). As we all know, there are no Muslims in France...
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[quote user="Sunday Driver"][quote user="Gluestick"]

I am, I must confess, bemused how advocates of the UK seem to be in denial at just how life has changed and how certain groups are intent on dominating British life style; sadly, aided and abetted by politicians of the moment.

As an example of this statement, yesterday, it came to my notice that Islamic Slaughter - Halal -  meat is now being supplied in food to a growing number of hospitals, prisons and schools: the stated justification being that it makes life simpler for the catering authorities in order that they do not offend the religious diktats of Muslims.

[/quote]

 How on earth do you equate accommodating the genuine needs of certain people who find themselves in a situation which denies them personal choice with domination of the British life style?

[/quote]

Accommodating another group's lifestyle is wholly different from force feeding those, with no choice in the matter and no consultation, in a majority who don't share that lifestyle. It's called compunction.

Next, it will be GM foods without the option: or Hicken Nuggets and Turkey Twizzlers et al.

If you can't see that then there's no point in dicussing it.

However, this was a minor point used by me to illustrate a core reality: which you seem to want to deny.

Strange....................

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[quote user="Will"]I hope - GS and others - that you enjoy your lives in a rural France preserved in aspic as a replica of 1950s England, and which will never be marred by progress, Sarkozy, or exposure to other cultures (with the exception of the superior English language and customs of course). As we all know, there are no Muslims in France...[/quote]

Of course I accept that France will inevitably change.No doubt in the future many will be absolutely delighted when France becomes yet another puppet state of the US, like the UK and possessions, celebdom, football, soap operas, mindless noise masquerading as music and a mongrel language and culture are the norm.

Personally, I'll be somewhere else..............

That said, I believe the rate of change, critically, will be much slower than elsewhere. That view is predicated on the economic structure, the social structure and the time it will take for Sarkozy or indeed anyone, to change that which doesn't want to be changed.

Thus far Sarkozy's 90 days are well and truly over: and he has failed, dismally, on his original promises![:P]

Of course there are many Muslims in France: that said, however, they are not able to bend government's will to their cause in the way they have certainly achieved this in the UK.

If you honestly believe different, then we are talking about two disparate states called Britain!

 

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[quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="Sunday Driver"][quote user="Gluestick"]

I am, I must confess, bemused how advocates of the UK seem to be in denial at just how life has changed and how certain groups are intent on dominating British life style; sadly, aided and abetted by politicians of the moment.

As an example of this statement, yesterday, it came to my notice that Islamic Slaughter - Halal -  meat is now being supplied in food to a growing number of hospitals, prisons and schools: the stated justification being that it makes life simpler for the catering authorities in order that they do not offend the religious diktats of Muslims.

[/quote]

 How on earth do you equate accommodating the genuine needs of certain people who find themselves in a situation which denies them personal choice with domination of the British life style?

[/quote]

Accommodating another group's lifestyle is wholly different from force feeding those, with no choice in the matter and no consultation, in a majority who don't share that lifestyle. It's called compunction.

Next, it will be GM foods without the option: or Hicken Nuggets and Turkey Twizzlers et al.

If you can't see that then there's no point in dicussing it.

However, this was a minor point used by me to illustrate a core reality: which you seem to want to deny.

Strange....................

[/quote]

What utter rubbish.... Halal, as with vergetarian foods is an option.  It is NOT being force fed to anyone who does not want to eat.  Typical anti-muslim crap matey. There is no compunction at all.

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

It is also apparent that one's perspective of current British life must be predicated by the area on lives in and/or, regularly experiences.

My own perspective must be based on my era of growing up in the early 50s: I find I can recapture much of this in rural France.

In the South West and East of England it is another matter entirely: as I again experienced on returning from France after New Year on the awful M20 and then A13.  [/quote]

But you're not comparing like with like, Gluestick. Until last May I lived in Oxfordshire, 5 miles from the M40/A34 interchange.  At peak times, and indeed quite a lot of the rest of the time, these roads were indeed extremely busy and sometimes horrendous (as can be some of the motorways in France at peak times).  But once off the major roads I could drive along quiet minor roads and country lanes, meeting very few cars, and enjoying the beauty of the countryside and the villages, just as I can in France.

I too grew up in the late 40s/early 50s in very rural Lancashire and know what you're talking about.  But do you truly want to go back to the days of no indoor sanitation or running water (both true of the cottage I lived in until these mod cons arrives in the late 50s)? I understand that the village where we now live in rural mid-Wales didn't even get mains electricity until 1963!  I think the real rose-coloured spectacles are being worn by those who look back nostalgically to the UK of their youth and try to recapture it in rural France, conveniently forgetting the poverty and deprivation which so often accompanied the rural idyll.

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[quote user="Chief"][quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="Sunday Driver"][quote user="Gluestick"]

I am, I must confess, bemused how advocates of the UK seem to be in denial at just how life has changed and how certain groups are intent on dominating British life style; sadly, aided and abetted by politicians of the moment.

As an example of this statement, yesterday, it came to my notice that Islamic Slaughter - Halal -  meat is now being supplied in food to a growing number of hospitals, prisons and schools: the stated justification being that it makes life simpler for the catering authorities in order that they do not offend the religious diktats of Muslims.

[/quote]

 How on earth do you equate accommodating the genuine needs of certain people who find themselves in a situation which denies them personal choice with domination of the British life style?

[/quote]

Accommodating another group's lifestyle is wholly different from force feeding those, with no choice in the matter and no consultation, in a majority who don't share that lifestyle. It's called compunction.

Next, it will be GM foods without the option: or Hicken Nuggets and Turkey Twizzlers et al.

If you can't see that then there's no point in dicussing it.

However, this was a minor point used by me to illustrate a core reality: which you seem to want to deny.

Strange....................

[/quote]

What utter rubbish.... Halal, as with vergetarian foods is an option.  It is NOT being force fed to anyone who does not want to eat.  Typical anti-muslim crap matey. There is no compunction at all.

[/quote]

http://www.oxfordmail.net/display.var.1944538.0.mums_condemn_schools_halal_meat_decision.php

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[quote user="KathyF"][quote user="Gluestick"]

It is also apparent that one's perspective of current British life must be predicated by the area on lives in and/or, regularly experiences.

My own perspective must be based on my era of growing up in the early 50s: I find I can recapture much of this in rural France.

In the South West and East of England it is another matter entirely: as I again experienced on returning from France after New Year on the awful M20 and then A13.  [/quote]

But you're not comparing like with like, Gluestick. Until last May I lived in Oxfordshire, 5 miles from the M40/A34 interchange.  At peak times, and indeed quite a lot of the rest of the time, these roads were indeed extremely busy and sometimes horrendous (as can be some of the motorways in France at peak times).  But once off the major roads I could drive along quiet minor roads and country lanes, meeting very few cars, and enjoying the beauty of the countryside and the villages, just as I can in France.

I too grew up in the late 40s/early 50s in very rural Lancashire and know what you're talking about.  But do you truly want to go back to the days of no indoor sanitation or running water (both true of the cottage I lived in until these mod cons arrives in the late 50s)? I understand that the village where we now live in rural mid-Wales didn't even get mains electricity until 1963!  I think the real rose-coloured spectacles are being worn by those who look back nostalgically to the UK of their youth and try to recapture it in rural France, conveniently forgetting the poverty and deprivation which so often accompanied the rural idyll.

[/quote]

Well, KathyF. I grew up firstly in Hertfordshire, where I was born, surrounded by glasshouses and nurseries. Then on the edge of Epping, 100 yards from the forest and finally, on the Thames Estuary.

All areas now are saturation over-developed and rather unpleasant! Where we are now as rural edge when we first came here: it's now bursting with little boxes made of ticky tacky: and it takes up to 1 hour to drive 10 miles on bad days....................................................

Wales another case.

Not much evidence of real poverty in our bit of the Pas de Calais, whilst I'm sure it's there: as it is still, increasingly in Britain.

Motorways, yes. Whenever I have had cause to go anywhere near Oxford it has been a traffic nightmare: two years ago I had the misfortune of spending 4 3/4 hours driving to Gerrard's Cross from Essex.

Whilst the A16 from Calais to Boulogne has its moments, it's never like the M25 et al! Even on Saturday the A16 was a distinct pleasure: whilst the M20 was appalling right from Ashford to Dartford.

Yes of course there are still rural delights in England, Wales and Scotland: if one can afford them!

And yet they are still part and parcel of the United Kingdom with identical problems with (e.g.) Council Taxes soaring and etc.

 

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