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[quote user="Marton"][quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Marton"]

The trouble with lots of posters on here is that you don't believe others are entitled to their opinions.     We all have one, and are entitled to it without the walls being posted.    [/quote]

 

You have every right to your opinion, Marton, just as everyone who has oppposed that opinion has a right to theirs. However, if you choose to twist statistics, manipulate documents and cherrypick spurious evidence to support your opinion, then it's only reasonable to expect that your use of this supposed "evidence" will be challenged.

It's not your opinion that I personally wish to challenge. If that's the opinion you want to hold, then fine. I will continue to challenge you, however, where you present unsubstantiated tabloid BS as justification for that opinion. Because it's my opinion that it is wrong to allow misinformation to be disseminated in the guise of "facts".

 

[/quote]

Ok depend on Tresco - he/she googles everything.      Open your eyes and get the blinkers off you may see some facts for yourself.

[/quote]

I think if you look closely, you'll find you were speaking to Betty on this occasion.

Ooops sorry, just realised you were talking about my googling skills. If only you would learn some.

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[quote user="Charlotte3"]"No one should expect to go to a new country and  to have it changed  to fit in with them , they should learn to fit in with the country they have moved to.  NO? I have no problems with any one living where they want as long as they dosnt affect the natives in a negative way."(Pads)

Exactly what happenned with the teddy bear.....silly woman!  She was very lucky.

Aly

[/quote]

She was indeed. Thank goodness we Brits aren't seeking to sink to that level of intolerance.

I'm way behind now. You guys are too quick for me.

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Interesting that this is from all the people who couldn't give a ---- about the Burmese monks being bludgeoned to death.....I mean, this is just sooo much more important, isn't it?

We Brits are just so tolerant, aren't we.....read as "so wrapped up in ourselves that we can't see anyone else's point of view"!

Aly

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[quote user="Charlotte3"]

Interesting that this is from all the people who couldn't give a ---- about the Burmese monks being bludgeoned to death.....I mean, this is just sooo much more important, isn't it?

We Brits are just so tolerant, aren't we.....read as "so wrapped up in ourselves that we can't see anyone else's point of view"!

Aly

[/quote]

Aly I have to reiterate Gays post...I don't know where the Monks came into the thread. OK I will look back, but don't forget I'm still looking up things Oakbri pointed to 2 pages back. I may be some time...[Www]

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No, please, make this a threesome. I have absolutely no recollection of there being any mention elsewhere on this thread of Burmese monks, nor do I recall ever stating openly on this forum, any other forum, or in any conversation that I don't give a stuff about Burmese monks being bludgeoned to death.

 

OTOH, I don't recall saying several things that have been attributed to me on this thread, so maybe it's indicative of a need to take action to stop my memory loss problems.

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Sorry guys, didn't mean to confuse you!

During the terrible events recently in Burma I posted a thread including an email from a burmese family which had been "smuggled" out through Germany.

It described events in the Buddhist temples where hundreds of gentle devout men had been bludgeoned to death and many hundreds of others taken away by the authorities. To date there is still no news of them.

Nobody on this forum was sufficiently interested to even post a reply, which was a real eye opener for me and made me really cross and equally sad, not for me or them, but for us all.

Anyway, I'm off my soapbox now....at least long enough to refill my glass!

Aly

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for those of you who missed it......Fate of the Buddhist monks in Burma(15.10.2007)

I've just received this email from Burma, it tells the REAL story of the buddhist monks in Rangoon........ I don't have the words to express my distress over the situation there, Aly

 

Voici la traduction d'un courriél datant de lundi 1er Octobre 2007 reçu par
> l'intermédiaire d'amis bouddhiste :
>  
> La situation en Birmanie selon l'e-mail ci-dessous :
>  
> Nous venons d'avoir un coup de téléphone de notre soeur qui habite à Yangon,
> il y a quelques heures.
>  
> On a vu qu'ils disaient sur la BBC WORLD que 200 moines avaient été arrêtés.
> La réalité est bien pire !!!!! Par exemple le monastère d'un quartier peu
> connu de Yangon, qui s'appelle Ngwe Kyar Yan ( Rue Wei-za-yan-tar à Yangon)
> a subi une descente de police tôt ce matin.
>  
> Une troupe de 'lone-tein' (la police anti-émeutes constituée de voyous
> payés) protégés par des camions militaires ont fait une descente sur le
> monastère où étudient 200 moines. Ils ont ordonné systématiquement à tous
> les moines de s'aligner, les ont frappés et leur ont écrasé la tête contre
> le mur de briques du monastère. Un par un, les moines pacifiques et sans
> résistance sont tombés par terre en hurlant de douleur. Puis les policiers
> leur ont arraché leurs robes rouges, les ont tous jetés dans les camions
> militaires (comme des sacs de riz) et ont emporté les corps.
>  
> Le moine principal a été attaché au milieu du monastère, torturé, matraqué
> et il est mort plus tard le même jour, aujourd'hui. Des dizaines de milliers
> de gens se sont rassemblés devant le monastère, ont été repoussés par des
> militaires baïonnettes au canon, et ils ont été incapables d'aider leurs
> moines impuissants qui se faisaient massacrer à l'intérieur du monastère.
> Toutes leurs tentatives pour avancer se sont heurtées aux baïonnettes.
>  
> Quand tout fut terminé, il ne restait que 10 moines sur 200 en vie, cachés
> dans le monastère. Du sang tachait tous les murs et les sols du monastère.
>  
> S'il vous plait, racontez à votre public l'étendue réelle du sort des
> moines, s'il vous plait, s'il vous plait !!!!!!
>  
> « Arrêté » n'est pas une expression suffisante. Ils ont été matraqués à
> mort.
>  
> Aye Aye
>  
> Hong Kong

>
>   _____  
>
> The situation in Burma according to the e-mail below :
>
>  
> We just got phone call with our sister living in Yangon about a few hours
> ago.
> We saw on BBC world, saying that 200 monks were arrested. The true picture
> is far worse!!!!!!!!!
> For one instance, the monastery at an obscure neighborhood of Yangon, called
> Ngwe Kyar Yan (on Wei-za-yan-tar Road, Yangon) had been raided early this
> morning.
> > > A troop of lone-tein (riot police comprised of paid thugs) protected by
> the military trucks, raided the monastery with 200 studying monks. They
> systematically ordered all the monks to line up and banged and crushed each
> one's head against the brick wall of the monastery. One by one, the
> peaceful, non resisting monks, fell to the ground, screaming in pain. Then,
> they tore off the red robes and threw them all in the military trucks (like
> rice bags) and took the bodies away.
>
> The head monk of the monastery, was tied up in the middle of the monastery,
> tortured , bludgeoned, and later died the same day, today. Tens of thousands
> of people gathered outside the monastery, warded off by troops with
> bayoneted rifles, unable to help their helpless monks being slaughtered
> inside the monastery. Their every try to forge ahead was met with the
> bayonets.
>
> When all is done, only 10 out of 200 remained alive, hiding in the
> monastery. Blood stained everywhere on the walls and floors of the
> monastery.
> Please tell your audience of the full extent of the fate of the monks please
> please !!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> 'Arrested' is not enough expression. They have been bludgeoned to death
> !!!!!!
>
> Aye Aye
> Hong Kong
>
>


"Careful with the axe, Eugene".....Pink Floyd
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Something weird seems to have happened/be happening. Anyway, having posted your original post onto this thread, Aly, you seem to have almost managed to create a situation where any subsequent replies to this thread actually divert to the Burma thread!!! At least, that's what just happened to me!! However, it seems that if I reply to the penultimate post in this thread, it will actually post to this thread and not the Burma one.

However, on the plus side, my reply to the Burma thread on here has actually turned up on the original Burma thread, and not on here at all.

 

I know exactly what I mean , even if no-one else does, BTW.

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Charlotte3

I never saw the original post. Awful story. Don't expect the UK to do anything unless Bush says so, and he won't bother unless it suits his agenda.

The monks were brave men, the fact the military government happily butchered them to hold onto power shows what little hope that country has.

 

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I saw the initial post to be truely honest, but I was so gobsmacked I didn't know what to answer........................

Couldn"t find any  words to react to such atrocities..

Sad sad world ..............................................................................................

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[quote user="oakbri"]

Charlotte

I wasn't having a go at Buddhists, quite the opposite in fact, I was just being ironic. And while I don't doubt that muslims are peaceful, when the press show a mob of thousands, with machettes, descending on the British embassy in Khartoum it doesn't look to me like a few radical clerics, it looked like a mob of thousands, then again the BBC could have used camera trickery.

[/quote]

What it was and as widely reported (but tyou missed tghose reports) was an orchestrated mob demo by the government to counteract growing wider public concern internationally about the teacher.  As i said, widely reported as such at the time, but conveniently forgotten.  The tactic was often used by Saddam Hussein during his reign, where by public were 'encouraged' to go out and demonstrate 'their' loyalty.  I can understand you forgetting though.

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[quote user="Chief"][quote user="oakbri"]

A friend of mine was telling me how his young son brought a letter home from school saying they were taking the children to visit a mosque "in order to give a balanced veiw of faiths", my friend bumped into the headmaster outside the school and said that it was fair enough but asked when were they going to visit a church as well, the headmaster said they were not, as it might offend the parents of the muslim children. [/quote]

Can you provide the name of the school and headmaster by any chance.  I would love to take this up (as unbelievable and hearsay as it sounds [;-)])

[/quote]

Oakbri, you seem to have forgotten this one.  Is it as i suspected, just tittle tattle that you are repeating for effect or is there some basis to it.

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

There are certainly some parts of British culture which I admire and enjoy (the musical tradition springs to mind), but this isn't because it's British, per se, simply because I admire it.  I'd like to see it preserved and to watch it develop, but it's not its Britishness but its quality and value which is important to me.[/quote]

But it IS its Britishness! The British music tradition is not the same as the French musical tradition, or the Mongolian musical tradition, or any other musical tradition.

Its Britishness is what makes it what it is, non? It's as valid and special as any other country's music. IMHO. Insert friendly smiley here. :-)

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[quote user="Marton"]family and friends remain in the UK and I've had family affected by the ruling of no nativity play being allowed [/quote]

Marton, look on the bright side. If your family were in France, they wouldn't just be "affected" by the no-nativity thing, they would be permanently traumatised and depressed, cos there ain't no such thing as a Nativity play in schools here! Secular, remember? No Muslim headscarfs, conspicuous crosses, or anything else that might suggest a religious belief.

On the Friday before Christmas, my poor, poor son had a German grammar controle - now THAT's what I call cruelty! :-)
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Blimey - that was a while ago, Saligo Bay!  I guess what I mean is that I enjoy it because it's my taste, whereas traditional music from some other countries (Greece springs to mind - don't know why) leaves me cold whist others (Hungarian traditional music, for instance,) I rather like!  My point was that I don't like a particular country's music because of the country it's from, simply because I like the music (its ethnic origins notwithstanding). Of course all are equally "valid" just as anybody is entitled to like, say Katy Meluwotsit, Bach or James Last - does anybody worry about where they were born?
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Maybe not exactly British music - and acknowledgements to Roger Miller, but...

Eng-er-land stinks like a pigsty do,
Bobbies doing paperwork, two by two,
Drunken teenagers, violent men,
Paedos stalking the little children.

Now, if you huff and puff and you fin'lly save enough
Money up to emigrate, to a place like France that’s great,
You’ll get away from bloody Brown, to a life that’s far more rosy,
under expat's friend Nic Sarkozy.

You’ll buy a house for b*gger all and booze is all dirt cheap,
You’ll get a bit of countryside with chickens, goats and sheep,
None of those darn immigrants, the world’s best health,
(Shome mishtake there surely – you must pay for that yourself)

 

 

 

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[quote user="Chief"][quote user="Chief"][quote user="oakbri"]

A friend of mine was telling me how his young son brought a letter home from school saying they were taking the children to visit a mosque "in order to give a balanced veiw of faiths", my friend bumped into the headmaster outside the school and said that it was fair enough but asked when were they going to visit a church as well, the headmaster said they were not, as it might offend the parents of the muslim children. [/quote]

Can you provide the name of the school and headmaster by any chance.  I would love to take this up (as unbelievable and hearsay as it sounds [;-)])

[/quote]

Oakbri, you seem to have forgotten this one.  Is it as i suspected, just tittle tattle that you are repeating for effect or is there some basis to it.

[/quote]

Chief

Not forgotten, just tryng to think of a way to email my friend in the UK to ask him for his sons old school details about an incident that happened 18 months so someone can make something out of it, and not sound a bit strange

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[quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="cooperlola"]Blimey - that was a while ago, Saligo Bay! [/quote] LOL, it was, wasn't it? That's what happens when you're a re-newed kid on the block! Pages 10-28 (approximately) remain unread, I'm afraid.[/quote][:D] I don't think you missed much!
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[quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="cooperlola"]Blimey - that was a while ago, Saligo Bay! [/quote] LOL, it was, wasn't it? That's what happens when you're a re-newed kid on the block! Pages 10-28 (approximately) remain unread, I'm afraid.[/quote]

Mods, I might be off topic but PLEASE let me say hello to Saligo Bay.  Hi there!  How are you?  Happy New Year, etc.  I thought all the Americans have left?  I AM right in thinking you are American, aren't I?

And, just to satisfy the mods, Yes, I think the UK has gone utterly bonkers![:D]

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[quote user="oakbri"]

[quote user="Tresco"][quote user="Bugbear"]At the end of the day does it really matter, surely it's all about how an individual sees a particular situation. T[/quote]

No, it isn't. On here, it's about people posting stuff, wildly exaggerated claims which reflect badly on minority groups in society, and not providing the slightest scrap of evidence to back up their claims..

These posters will never, ever, show me the law that has banned Nativity Plays, Gollys, Christmas Carols Singers, in fact Christmas...they will never, ever,  show me the Governments role in 'yielding' to the 'demands' of Muslims, of policies which 'throw away' or in other ways try to 'get rid of' our heritage.

[/quote]

Tresco

Friday June 10, 2005

The Guardian

"A mandate is a wonderful thing, even if this government's rests on just 22% of the electorate. A bad bill already twice rejected with a big rebellion on Labour benches was tabled again yesterday, regardless of the strength of opposition to it. The incitement to religious hatred bill is back, although it lost the argument resoundingly on every other outing. Forward not back? No, back for the third time.

Why? To appease a Muslim vote that elected George Galloway in Bethnal Green and gave a fright to several other MPs. It is an appeasing gesture strongly lobbied for by the mainstream Muslim Council of Britain. But its unintended consequences will stir up exactly the religious hatred it seeks to assuage."

Most of the things you list can be found by a simple google search.

I am sure everyone remembers the storekeeper raided by police for selling golliwogs. The charges were finally dropped in the face of massive public pressure. But what were the police doing with this in the first place.

[/quote]

I apologise for the massive nested quotes.

Oakbri I don't know why you have cited this partial quote (and old) quote from Polly Toynbee in answer to what I said. However I said I would answer, so I will.

I'm in broad agreement with Ms Toynbee, as it happens. I was at the time, but there were many people who disagreed with me. They included not only The Methodist Church, but the C of E, and Catholics were pretty keen on it too, their only quibble being that they still wanted to be able to say what they say about homosexuality.[:)] The Bill aimed to close the loophole in various other Acts, whereby Jews and Sikhs were 'protected' against racial hatred through 'attacks' on faith, but Christians, Muslims, and other religious groups were excluded from protection, so it's not surprising a wide variety of faith groups supported it, badly draughted though it was.

The Association of Chief Police Officers also supported the Bill (as it was, at that stage).

The people opposing the bill made for strange bedfellows.[:D]

The law was passed, after much amendment. Some of the amendments took on board the C of E and Catholic churches needs to...say what they say about homosexuality.[;-)]

If you read it, well to me it seems really unwieldy and I would guess unworkable, but I'm not a lawyer, or a Crown Prosecution Service person, and nor do I have a 'legal' mind. I await with interest the first prosecutions, but think I'll be waiting some time for a successful one.

I don't think this is something we're going to see much of. A lot of time and money spent for very little gain.

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