NormanH Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 The French will love this [6]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/uk-politics-video/7832700/Chris-Bryant-brands-French-a-useless-modern-language.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I read this yesterday and thought 'oh dear' but I have a sneaky feling he maybe right - French generally doesn't seem quite as useful as it once did ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 [quote user="Russethouse"] I read this yesterday and thought 'oh dear' but I have a sneaky feling he maybe right - French generally doesn't seem quite as useful as it once did ![/quote]You might try explaining that to the French [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 The ignorance and arrogant assumptions of idiot politicians never ceases to amaze me!Shame he cannot even buy a shirt that fits.............Aother Lefty wonderkind: no wonder Britain is in such a right old mess after 13 years of government from such ignorami.List of Francophone Countries.BelgiumBeninBurkina-FasoBurundiCameroonCanadaCentral African RepublicChadComorosDemocratic Republic of CongoDjiboutiFranceGabonGuineaHaitiIvory CoastLuxembourgMadagascarMaliMonacoNigerRepublic of CongoRwandaSenegalSeychellesSwitzerlandTogoVanuatu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Sorry, but he was right.As I read the article today, he was saying that Mandarin, Spanish & Portuguese were more relevent as languages in today's commercial world.Whether his shirt fits or not, it's reality.A long & impressive list of countries Gluestick, but 90% of which would not feature as emerging nations in a commercial sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Quite, which one of those countries do we export big amounts too, or even import from ? Unpalatable though it may be its up to us to teach 'useful' languages and French isn't in the position it used to be........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tancrède Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 [quote user="Gluestick"]Shame he cannot even buy a shirt that fits....[/quote]That is scarcely surprising. A quick dab on Google Images [Chris underpants Bryant] will be sufficient to remind us that the shirt is not the article of clothing for which he is best remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 If a language is worth learning only for its commercial use, then he may be right,, I don't know.I ve learnt English because I loved the sound of it, and was interested in the culture and history of the country.I ve learnt Italian for the same reasons.I intend to start German again ( already got notions), because I love the sound of German.Spanish may be interesting commercially speaking, but I can't stand the sound of it.France is an important country in Europe, and I think most posters on here live in France, so isn't it a good reason to learn French ??? [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Gluestick - you left out Andorra. [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 And Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 [quote user="Frenchie"]If a language is worth learning only for its commercial use, then he may be right,, I don't know.France is an important country in Europe, and I think most posters on here live in France, so isn't it a good reason to learn French ??? [Www][/quote]Yes, yes & yes, but your 1st sentence was the point of his comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 More than 20 years ago our local comprehensive in UK held a meeting for parents to discuss whether Mandarin should be taught in place of one of the languages they taught at the time. French is still taught there, as is Spanish and German; atiny number of gifted pupils learn Mandarin in the sixth form, joining others from a number of other schools.Commercially Chris Bryant may be right, although I don't remember a push by the previous government to do anything much about encouraging the teaching of those language, and seemed to discourage the teaching of traditional language subjects in secondary schools as far as I remember.They were keen for a language was to be taught at all primary schools though (shades of the course I was sent on in Paris many years ago, in order to teach French at primary level!) - but I can't remember much cash being provided. My brother and SIL have been here on holiday (still here till Saturday due to strike on Tuesday!). They arrived unable to speak a word of French - really not a word - I was very surprised, as they have visited Paris twice, and I thought they would at least know the very basic polite words. My brother speaks to absolutely everyone wherever he is, but found to his surprise that ordinary people we came across, such as on a walk by a small local river, couldn't speak any English. That didn't stop him of course, and there were lots of friendly nods and smiles.By last night, they were readily using the names of two local restaurants in conversation, saying bonjour and au revoir at times, and 'merci-thankyou' whenever it was needed; they were also talking about 'rosé wine' as a matter of course. Not a lot, but a huge jump for them - and we have two more days yet!My brother really didn't want to come to visit; my SIL has been dying to come, and only having 2 major illnesses and operations/chemotherapy during the last two years have prevented her visiting before now. I was very worried about food before my brother arrived. He's fine on most fish he can recognise from home and enjoys mussels, dislikes most meat and chicken, dislikes all salads and almost all vegetables (a keen gardener, who doesn't eat even his own vegetables), wouldn't dream of eating pulses, most egg dishes etc. As we were planning being out sightseeing most days, I decided to cook very simply, and only eat a couple of main meals at home. He's become increasingly adventurous since arriving, and even ate morue yesterday, - cod, aioli ('that's garlicy and hot'), the hard boiled egg and potato etc, leaving his plate almost empty. Most places here serve big salads with everything, and he's been eating a fair amount of those each mealtime, and he's also eaten guineafowl amongst other things. The meal at a lovely fish-only restaurant in Nimes was favourite; it's a particular favourite of ours and he ate things there that he'd never seen or heard of and cleared each plate. They have asked to return to a small local restaurant on Friday night for their last dinner here; there's little fish on the menu, and again he just about cleared all his plates when we ate there on Tuesday night. They are also drinking rosé with us with all their meals, as do most locals, (normally they might occasionally have a glass of red wine in UK), and have asked us to take them a box of a local rosé home for them in the car when we head back to UK. Just think what a longer break might do! But we'll be pleased when their plane takes off on Saturday morning; we'd been looking forward to putting our feet up when they left on Tuesday!My brother has also been very taken with people we know shaking hands with them, and assumed he could also give the customary three kisses to our French friends; not the men of course, and the women joined in happily! They both think life here is wonderful, despite not seeing much sunshine, find the people very friendly, and now appreciate why we live here for 6 months each year. A second visit in September is already being discussed; I'm hoping to have recovered by then! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I believe it's true to say that the language used by the most amount of people in a single country is Chinese (or Mandarin if you like). That the most common first language of different countries is Spanish and the most common second language around the world is English.If you want to stay ahead of the game you really need to speak English. Most medical, scientific, financial and technical papers are always printed and circulated world wide in English after which those that can't read English have to wait until somebody translates it for them.French has for many, many, years been the language of 'court' and then of international politics but it's now all but gone. Even the EU has chosen (after many years of procrastination) that English is the official second language. Latin was the language of science including horticulture (which it is still used for - plant names) but its taught in very few schools these days and where it is taught its an optional language. I can remember as a kid all our doctors prescriptions were written in Latin.So yes in a way I think he's right, French has become in many ways internationally a 'dead' language. The countries that still speak French, as listed by Gluestick are a relic of a bygone age where Napoleon demanded that all French citizens spoke a common language. Having said that many are gradually returning to their original language, I believe some areas in the north of France and certainly down here were Catalan and Occitan is taught in local schools and can be heard quite frequently if you listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote user="Clarkkent"]Gluestick - you left out Andorra. [:)][/quote]And South Kensington [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I wonder if he would have received the same ridicule if he was a heterosexual Conservative politician? No doubt he would then have been applauded for standing up for traditional British Empire values...As a former Foreign Office minister and Minister of State for Europe (not to mention being employed by the BBC as Head of European Affairs) he should have some knowledge of the subject. But then he is also a former member of the Tory party and an ordained clergyman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote user="Will"][quote user="Clarkkent"]Gluestick - you left out Andorra. [:)][/quote]And South Kensington [;-)][/quote]and Belsize Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote user="Clarkkent"]Gluestick - you left out Andorra. [:)][/quote]I think they speak Catalan there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 To add to that, Q, English is the international language of Aviation: the Maritime World; Computing; Science and Engineering (As you say): and yes, Mandarin's importance grows in lockstep with China's economic success and global influence.Now, whilst every member state's language is recognised by the EU,"The European Commission, for example, conducts its internal business in three languages, English, French, and German (sometimes called “procedural languages”), and goes fully multilingual only for public information and communication purposes."And since the EU is now Britain's major trading partner, accounting for circa 48% of export value, then a conclusion here is pretty obvious.Whilst Mandarin may well be the most commonly spoken language, the core reality is skewed simply by weight of population, numerically: only a fraction of total are or will be business and professional classes for many years to come. Same comment applies to Spanish and Portuguese.Back in the 1970s we were told to learn Japanese......Shame the man with the execrable sartorial style doesn't focus on suggesting brits should learn to read, speak and write their own language reasonably..............[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 What ever happened to Esperanto, is it still taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote user="Gluestick"]Shame the man with the execrable sartorial style doesn't focus on suggesting brits should learn to read, speak and write their own language reasonably..............[/quote]Now that's not a bad idea. Maybe he could start with those users of French forums who leave their native language skills on the quayside at the ferry port. [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote user="Quillan"]What ever happened to Esperanto, is it still taught.[/quote]Apparently there are some places where you can learn it. Mainly in Hungary and China for some reason. The Finns seem to take it quite seriously (which anybody with an appreciation of the Finnish language will probably understand).To me it always looks like a cross between an Eastern European dialect and Polari.There are some nice nuggets in the Wikipedia entry for Esperanto (note that nuggets and truth are not synonymous in this context), namely:"Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran called on Muslims to learn Esperanto""Esperanto asymmetry in gender formation makes it sexist""The vocabulary is too large. ""The first international Esperanto congress was organized in France, Boulogne-sur-Mer, in 1905""The Institute of Cybernetic Pedagogy at Paderborn (Germany) has compared the length of study time it takes Francophone high school students to obtain comparable 'standard' levels in Esperanto, English, German, and Italian. The results were:2000 hours studying German1500 hours studying English1000 hours studying Italian150 hours studying Esperanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Grandaughter aged 9 learning French at school and they will also teach Manderin .. China may be the "in" place at the moment but they have not given up on teaching French and I dont think they will ever do so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celine Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Is that a private school, Frederick? If it weren't for the independent sector my French teaching would soon dry up. Most of these establishments do at least insist on pupils taking either French or German to GCSE. Learning a modern foreign language shows self discipline and a creative flair, though I am not sure it really matters which language the pupil chooses.Interestingly I have just marked several French degree papers from Bristol University and the subject was "La Mondialisation." There were paragraphs after paragraphs on the demise of the French language. Some traditionalists may not like it, but anyone under the age of 25 would probably agree with the "useless" label given to French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velcorin Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Sorry, I too agree with the useless label. English is the de facto second language for the world. I work for a German multi national. All business is in English, it is a company Directive. It's even the same in French companies. Nobody these days talks to customers in their own language as some sort of selling tool. The war has been lost. Everyone, everywhere learns English. In a way that makes being an English more difficult. Which language do we learn? Pick any one from hundreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote user="Celine"]Learning a modern foreign language shows self discipline and a creative flair.....[/quote]That's quite strong and I disagree, there are many ways to learn both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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