This one is for the Electricians, please!

[mint]

Have a new electrical appliance from the UK.  It doesn't have a plug but there are the standard 3 wires:  brown, blue and green/yellow.

Here are the specs:

Rated voltage 230V

Motor power 1100W

Recommended fuse 13 amp

Chez nous, we have the standard French points with one projecting pin and 2 recessed sockets.

We also have a conforming electrical control box.

Please can you advise us on what sort of plugs we can use?  If it's not too much trouble, a picture would be even more helpful!

Thank you very much.

[powerdesal]

Sweet,

French plugs do NOT have fuses so use a 'normal' one.

Convention says that the left hand hole in the socket is the live so that means the right hand pin of the plug (as you look at it) is the live ie the brown. The opposite pin is the neutral, ie the blue and the remaining one is the earth (green/yellow), its not critical for the live / neutral as, in France, both are protected by disjoncteurs as opposed to to UK which only protect the live.

[mint]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Convention says that the left hand hole in the socket is the live so that means the right hand pin of the plug (as you look at it) is the live ie the brown. [/quote]

Thanks, Steve.  Don't know which way you are looking at the plug?!

But both of us have got the idea now.

Hey, where are you and are you having Christmas in freezing temperatures or sitting under palm trees?

[powerdesal]

Sweet,

look at the face of the plug, there are two pins plus a hole, the right hand pin is the live (left hand hole when you insert it), the hole is the earth that goes over the pin in the socket.

Christmas in the sunshine this year. In France next week for two weeks only. In fact flight to LHR tomorrow night (YIPPEE) then ferry to Calais on Wednesday.

[mint]

Nothing like a good explanation, Steve!

Enjoy your well-deserved holidays![:)]

[tonyv]

Sorry, Steve, but that's completely wrong. If I've misunderstood your post please excuse me.

Nowhere in the French normes does it state which pin is live and which is neutral, and in the past French electricians have pleased themselves. It actually doesn't matter too much because French switches are normally double-pole, but kit from UK is only switched single-pole.

However, in the last few (maybe 10) years, a convention has arisen, which is adopted by Legrand and other manufacturers in their colour coding wich mandates the RIGHT hand pin, looking at the wall socket (in fact the same one as in the UK) as "live", or "phase", and this should accept the brown wire.

Ideally, get a neon screwdriver to establish which pin in the socket is live, and rewire accordingly.

[powerdesal]

I certainly admit to the possibility of being wrong vis-a-vis the rh /lh situation.

I am going by memory of how I wired my own installation. However, as you say, it does not really make a great deal of difference.

Certainly the French normes do not specify live and neutral positions.

[Chancer]

I was second fixing loads of sockets yesterday and struggling to recall what was what, commo sense evaded me as I could have checked those I already did some years back instead I seemed to remember that it was the same as a UK plug so with the cover off and the pins facing away from you then the live is on the right hence I wired the sockets that way.

I have a 50/50 chance of doing it to convention but I agree that is all it is and that it isnt in the normes, in my opinion it should be as appliances are starting to be sold via te sheds that do have single pole on/off switches presumably common across UE countries.

[Etoile]

As in the UK, the RH pin, viewed from BEHIND the plug, is the live. Ie. When the plug is in the wall.

I think it is important to get this right even in France. If, for instance, a lamp is plugged into a socket that is wired opposite to the above a single pole switch in the cord could end up switching the neutral instead of the live. In this situation someone might touch the contacts in the lamp assuming it will be dead and have a bit of a surprise. Sure the trip should protect them, but that is not guaranteed.

[just john]

I suggest you visit Leroy Merlin (Angouleme is very good), they have the correct plug you need, (buy the one about 4e, not the cheap one) and even a little booklet but more importantly they have staff that are very knowledgeable and very helpful.

 .leroymerlin tester only 12.90e  Tester 2P + T. Ref.: 66909346  (better than a belt)

edit: worth another try; no matter which side it is meant to be, it is a simple mistake for it to be reversed at either socket or board, so the only way to be certain is to stick this in, or get a man wot does[:)]

[britgirl]

S 17,

At the risk of being 'non P.C' I'd find what a man-what-can. Watch what he does and you'll know for next time.

No point in taking risks [8-)]

[Quillan]

I was told by a French electrician that it does not matter which way round because they don't use pme earthing in France (that's neutral and earth joined) and that as somebody said breakers trip both neutral and live. I was also told that dishwashers, washing machines, driers and electric cooker ovens have to have their own dedicated socket with breaker. I am no expert, I am just repeating what I was told, how true it is I do not know but it is in keeping with how my house is wired which is as we bought it.

[Etoile]

Surely one thing we would all agree on is that when it comes to French electrics one cannot assume anything in terms of existing wiring and fault protection.

Thus I made the comment about observing the poles even in France! There is no harm in being double safe.

[tonyv]

No, the poles are in Poland!

[mint]

Didn't realise I'd be opening such a can of worms.  In view of what Etoile has said, I am getting the OH to return to the plug and reposition the brown or live one so that it will be on the right when the plug is in position in the wall!

Got it right this time, right?[:D] 

Britgirl, I don't think I know a man what knows, at least not this evening!

[Etoile]

This is certainly how I would wire it. We also do not always know what is in the future - you might suddenly find yourself back in the UK with the appliance wired via an adaptor. Again, better to stick to the polarity.

I say this as someone who is normally very suspicious of so-called experts. I do not hesitate to do my own electricity, and gas, connections. Of course there are pitfalls, but there are also so many people, and even more in France than in the UK, who are determined to convince you that you really should pay them £300 an hour to check for a leaky pipe with Fairy Liquid.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Etoile"]. Of course there are pitfalls, but there are also so many people, and even more in France than in the UK, who are determined to convince you that you really should pay them £300 an hour to check for a leaky pipe with Fairy Liquid.[/quote]

When you could chack it with a lighted match like my dear Father, - I kid you not!

In his defence he did have a good nose and could judge a high concentration where he would not use the match.

[Quillan]

John, your link does not work.

300 Euros an hour for leak checking! That sounds very high, it wasn't an English chap with a Readers Digest Book of Home Improvement in one hand and fairy liquid in another as it sounds about right. [;-)]

If this is a vacuum cleaner (you didn't say what type of appliance it is) then why not just use a UK to EU converter, your motor wattage means it draws just under 5 amps and the adapters will take up to 7 amps (all mine do but check it should be written on the adapter) so there won't be a problem and saves a load of messing around. You may also have a warranty problem if you cut the plug off, assuming it's still in warranty.

[just john]

[quote user="Quillan"] John, your link does not work. 300 Euros an hour for leak checking!   You may also have a warranty problem if you cut the plug off, assuming it's still in warranty.[/quote]

Unless you have already removed the plug, by far the simplest thing is to use the adaptors, Personally after warranty has expired I always change to a French plug (NOT the cheap ones) and don't touch live bare contacts[:-))], but if you really must go Pole checking, try this little  .leroymerlin tester only 12.90e  Tester 2P + T. Ref.: 66909346  (better than a belt)

[pachapapa]

I use one of these, in fact I bought half-a-dozen in the sales; cheaper than buying batteries. It has inside a couple of 1.5V button batteries which make it polyvalent. For example it can be used as a continuity tester without an external power source; useful for checking the wiring of electrical gear at vide greniers.

http://www.lmma.fr/product.php?id_product=1752

However I note a similar type of product at a heavily reduced price with tournevis à embouts thrown in to make the package juicier. Oh and best of all it has that magic name of STANLEY on it which the peasants of guangdong copy so well.

http://www.cdiscount.com/maison/bricolage-outillage/stanley-ttesteur-pte-embout/f-117040202-697295.html?cm_mmc=Toolbox-_-Affiliation-_-Twenga%201706145-_-n/a&cid=affil

Joking apart I would buy the first one 'cos it does the following:

Détection de tension à contact direct:	70-250 V c.a./250 V c.c.
Détection de tension sans contact:	70-10000 V c.a.
Test de continuité:	0-50 MΩ
Test de polarité:	1,2-36 V c.c.
Détection de fuites de micro-ondes:	>5 mW/cm2
Barrière de sécurité:	résistance de 16 MΩ
Durée des piles:	5 heures environ
L = 135 mm - lame

[mint]

I feel very privileged that so many of you are concerned that I don't get reduced to cinders!  Thank you very much indeed, everybody.

Q, I spoke to the company in the UK from which I got the carpet and upholstery cleaner (Thank you, Sid for the recommendation) and they told me it would be supplied without a plug.  I guess they just remove the plugs from the appliances that they send abroad.

Etoile, you are perfectly right about getting the poles correct because, guess what, some of our points have been put in upside down, that is, with the sticking out metal bit on the bottom instead of the top of the socket!  Will be sure not to plug the appliance into one of the upside down ones!

So, off to the magasins then, for a good quality plug......[:D]

[ericd]

Brown or Blue the polarities does not matter in French electrical wiring but if you have nothing else to do tomorrow afternoon, just do it the way Etoile suggests, it will keep you busy for a couple hours.........

[ericd]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Etoile, you are perfectly right about getting the poles correct because, guess what, some of our points have been put in upside down, that is, with the sticking out metal bit on the bottom instead of the top of the socket!  Will be sure not to plug the appliance into one of the upside down ones! [/quote]

The sticking out bit is the earth and again sweet, which ever way you push your plug in the socket does not matter.

[mint]

Eric, I have been 2 hours at the toubib's for my regular prescription but I did manage to get a plug.  Now, to persuade the OH that he needs to attach it to the appliance before he leaves for the UK day after tomorrow.

I'd put it on myself but the wires feel very stiff and it's quite tricky getting them into the plug.  No wonder the French have this reputation for insouciance.....they wire their appliances any old how!

[ericd]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

.....they wire their appliances any old how! [/quote]

 

No we don't do it any old how.......as it does not matter which way the wires are fitted.....