Patf Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 with "homicide involuntaire".In Feb last year 29 people were drowned in their homes on the Vendée coast when a storm brought unusually high tides.The houses were on a lotissement below sea level, and the Maire had given a permis de construire and CUs. Other people are being blamed as well.Seems that families of the dead are seeking compensation, and loss of property too.So was it negligence, or an "Act of God"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 The high tides were a catastrophe naturelle.The deaths could have been avoided.Who would want to be maire...?[:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Neither!My opinion as stated earlier remains the same.Re: The aftermath of the storm. Bugsy wrote:Surely best ignored.To get back on topic.The 'blame game' looks to be starting now BBC NEWSIts been suggested that waves reaching 8 metres in height rushed through that area. If that is true, which is rather difficult to believe, surely no walls or banks could have prevented what happened..Why is that difficult to believe?When the eye of the tempest hit the Charente Maritime/Vendée coast line a 40,000 square kilometre body of water with on average 6 metre high waves accompanied it; you only have to factor in the high tide and a steady 160 kilometre per hour wind being channeled into the L'Aiguillon Estuary. Difficult to believe, not at all, INEVITABLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Hmmm, well, perhaps it is significant that the flooding hit both sides of the river mouth. In the commune where there had been considerable development, serious loss of life. In the commune on the opposite bank, identical conditions, but there had been no development, all having been refused by the mayor, zero loss of life.The risks were known but deliberately ignored in the name of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 Hmmm.. interesting. The case started this week at the tribunal of Sables d'Olonne. Another charge is "prise illégale d'intérêt" - is that what your last sentence means Wooly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Residential areas below sea level are not unusual; consider the Netherlands. The loss of life was due to inadequate dyyke protection and deficient assessment of the impending danger by the french meteorological authorities.The french meteo is pretty hopeless so to be expected. As a result no order for the evacuation of the La Faute sur Mer never was even contemplated.A post from the evening of the saturday:There are currently 66 departments on orange alert for night Sat-Sun.The france meteo site is pathetic so I thought you might like to look at a non pathetic meteo info site.Click on link for opening page with complete barometric synopsis for the whole of westen europe right down to the Canaries.Left margin allows pacing through the time sequence; note that the area to the south -west of the depression has the closest isobar spacing and therefore the highest wind speeds.There are lots of other tags to play with and for monosyllabics there is a language flag at bottom left.Looks like Charente Maritime will get the highest wind speeds between 02:00 -04:00 Sunday morning. The estimate of 03:00 was taken from the Spanish Meteorological Service; as to the two links below they are of course current but in the context of the Xyntia event the second link is of interest. It shows the elevation of the sea for the Spanish Cantabrian Coast and perforce the Bay of Biscay. On the night of the Xyntia event the sea level for the area adjacent to the coast of the Marais Poitevin was forecast at 6 metres during the same time period when the eye of the depression crossed the coast.http://www.eltiempo.es/presion/?20Minhttp://www.eltiempo.es/cantabrico/olas.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 [quote user="Patf"]Hmmm.. interesting. The case started this week at the tribunal of Sables d'Olonne. Another charge is "prise illégale d'intérêt" - is that what your last sentence means Wooly?[/quote]Not sure what it is in English but it is summed up, I think, by malfeasance in office. In this case, using your office to further the interests of yourself, your family or associates. The mayor is alleged to have collaborated with an estate agent to sell the land and get contracts to develop it - the agent was his son in law. And he is alleged to have changed the status of the land and made it developable when having an interest too.But he knew the risks, so it is also alleged.By the way, I know that sea wall well and know how fragile it was and still is.(There is an alleged case on my last blog too)It happens all the time and is one of the big weakensses of the system here, where the Press really does not investigate enough or at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Normal in a corrupt immoral society![:D]To put a Deux Cherves context to french standards; the bâtonier has instructed the avocats of the department to ignore the decision of the Cour de Cassation to implement immediately the presence of an avocat during the Garde à Vue.WHAT A FARCE.[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Wonder what they will be guilty of if they deliberately refuse to obey a call for a lawyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 [quote user="woolybanana"]Wonder what they will be guilty of if they deliberately refuse to obey a call for a lawyer?[/quote]http://www.20minutes.fr/article/708051/france-reforme-garde-vue-quelques-couacs-gros-incidentsFirst bit on 2 Cherves bastion of deepest france.[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I have just been looking and it looks like the first discussions about building this lotissement were in 1996 and the decision being made in 1999, built in around 2002. Several Maires ago or the same one?We wanted to build an abri bois attached to our house with a terrace instead of a roof on this building which would extend our current balcony. We lived next to a small river and we were not allowed to build within a certain distance of the river bank and were limited as to what we could build on our land due to it's proximity to the river. That was probably about the same time. We were told of the risk of flooding, that was in the Alps. After Vaison la Romaine, the DDE seemed to get quite 'hot' on flood areas, well at least ours did.So how is this the Maires fault, even way back then the DDE had a big say in what was going on and signed off on such planning. And what a clue in the name, La Faute sur Mer, I'm not the brighest spark around, but frankly that would have set alarm bells off if I had been looking for a place along that coast, along the lines, now why did people in the old days call it that. I have also looked at google earth and that small band of land between a river and the sea, what is it, dunes? And if so, they have built there? Rivers flood, the sea floods, and to be sandwiched between the two? All seems very odd and obviously needs a full enquiry, but the people who bought there must have been aware as to 'where' they were buying and the risks, we were in a flood zone, it was on the plans at the Mairie, must have been on theirs too.OR are things that different in the Vendee and have Maires got beaucoup power there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 The prevailing current of the Vendée coast is south with deposition of sand. The esplanade at La Faute is now well back from the high tide mark protecting the seaward side from normal storm damage. The achilles heel is the east side adjacent to the river which had survived the worse 1999 Great Storm but in 2010 the swell was extraordinary resulting in the water flowing over the eastern flood defences rather than breaking through at an initial breach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 Idun - the article in the Dépêche that I'm referring to says that this Maire has been in post since1989.However attractive it seems to have a seaside home I've been put off it for a long time , seeing evidence on the N. Yorks coast of sea encroachment, houses washed away into the sea etc. And I think the same is happening on France's west coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Well, a huge chunk of the Vendée used to be marsh or underwater and is very low, and contains thousands of homes, caravan sites and communities. In a sense, I suppose it is surprising that there is not more damage.If you look at La Tranche-sur-mer, the long term encroachment is clear to see.Remember that Niort used to be a port before the marshes were drained, Bouin was an island, so I guess maybe a third of the Vendée could be under threat. But if it comes to that, there will be big cities going down too, such as London, La Rochelle, NY, Bordeaux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Even if the Maire was in for so long, did he really have the last say over the DDE? If he did, when did Maires in twopenny- halfpenny villages manage to retain so much power in recent times? Ours didn't.Our DDE appeared to be on the ball. Surely the DDE in our region was not the only one which was vigilent. I have no idea if our DDE has not done as they should have in other places in our region, but for our village at least, they seemed to take everything seriously.EG: Years ago we received little memos sent out from our Mairie, upon the DDE's request, with the flood zones clearing indicated, no build zones in fact. We also had a list of what to do if the big damn at the head of the Isere went, think they said something silly like 30 minutes, maybe less after the alert to get to high ground, which may be possible, as we had very high ground all around, but who knows how many of us could have got there in the panic. And as I said we were told very strictly that we couldn't build on just about most of our land. I saw a program recently about marsh land in East Anglia that is now a proper flood zone as nature intended it to be, so no longer trying to fight the sea, but allow it's flow. I suppose to protect London.I don't like the look of La Faute, very clear views on Google earth and it does not look like a piece of land where I would feel safe to live and the river would worry me as much as the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Recent grafitti/tags this weekend in La Faute attack the courageous woman who formed an Association Loi de 1901, in defence of the victims of the night of 28th feb 2010.The tags also attack the Préfet of the Vendée.The woman has in the last year received threatening anonymous letters.All normal for the marratier mafia, I presume.http://lci.tf1.fr/france/justice/2011-04/xynthia-graffitis-et-insultes-contre-les-victimes-a-la-faute-6397904.htmlThe lead avocat is Olivier Metzner...a star in the objective presentation of the truth........in the french """legal system"""[:D] its/it's what the advocaat says out of court that matters.....what is said in court is largely irrelevant.[;-)]Who can spit the furthest!Gisèle Arnaud, qui a perdu son père lors de la tempête, a ainsi été prise à partie, insultée et s'est fait cracher dessus samedi en allant au cimetière prendre soin de la tombe de son père avec sa fille de 12 ans. "Je suis tombée sur un couple de retraités, la femme m'a agressée en disant: 'toi j'attendais de te choper' et elle m'a craché dessus. Elle a aussi dit: 'il faut arrêter vos conneries, c'est une honte ce que vous faites au maire", a-t-elle raconté Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Ahhh, such is the nature of these small french villages, they can have many sinister undercurrents, we had the same in our village. We even had a friend arrested, his house searched and his work place too, he had had nothing to do with the problems with the Maire at that time, but as the Maire had done a porteplainte contre X, and the Maire didn't like our friend, he was arrested, then released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 En route to La Rochelle airport today, with time to spare, I mooched southward via the mussel port of Charron on L'Aiguillon Bay. The road leading to the port had a sprinkling of immaculate little houses. but I started to notice windows bricked in, notices stuck to doors saying "Chantier interdit", and even the odd X sprayed on a closed shutter (which I think was a sign that the rescue services had checked it out and found no one at home). It suddenly dawned on me that these were also Xynthia-damaged properties. I think maybe there was not loss of life at Charron, as there was at La Faute, but it brought home the individual catastrophe for owners; I presume these were properties that were insurance write-offs, although they still looked pristine apart from the bricked-in windows.Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 The cross in x indicates scheduled destruction; "vu" was written on houses during the flooding to indicate lodging searched.http://poitou-charentes.france3.fr/info/charron-17-73-maisons-demolies-en-septembre-68417582.html?onglet=videos&id-video=POIT_1402503_160420111001_F3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Ah.I was surprised that the houses looked in such perfect condition; I would have expected them to have a tidemark (no pun intended) around the walls, at least, but they looked perfect.Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 perhaps they have to be cleaned before they can be demolished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote user="pachapapa"]The cross in x indicates scheduled destruction; "vu" was written on houses during the flooding to indicate lodging searched.http://poitou-charentes.france3.fr/info/charron-17-73-maisons-demolies-en-septembre-68417582.html?onglet=videos&id-video=POIT_1402503_160420111001_F3[/quote]shouldn't they have written "vue" ?I spent years learning about agreements!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote user="bubbles"][quote user="pachapapa"]The cross in x indicates scheduled destruction; "vu" was written on houses during the flooding to indicate lodging searched.http://poitou-charentes.france3.fr/info/charron-17-73-maisons-demolies-en-septembre-68417582.html?onglet=videos&id-video=POIT_1402503_160420111001_F3[/quote] shouldn't they have written "vue" ? I spent years learning about agreements!!![/quote]Apparently your years of asiduous learning did not adequately cover the past participle.[:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 The AVIF site gives a detailed account of the events at La Faute sur Mer; if you click on a topic there is more detail and comments.http://www.asso-avif.com/http://www.lafautesurmer.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="bubbles"][quote user="pachapapa"] The cross in x indicates scheduled destruction; "vu" was written on houses during the flooding to indicate lodging searched.http://poitou-charentes.france3.fr/info/charron-17-73-maisons-demolies-en-septembre-68417582.html?onglet=videos&id-video=POIT_1402503_160420111001_F3[/quote] shouldn't they have written "vue" ? I spent years learning about agreements!!![/quote]Apparently your years of asiduous learning did not adequately cover the past participle.[:P][/quote]Then perhaps a relique still surviving from your previous assiduous studies of latin...the hablative habsolute can be very persuasive.Particularly after exposure to De Bello Gallico.[:)]http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/caesar/gall1.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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