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Where does it leave us??


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Come on, nobody is patronising you,, nobody has pointed a figure directly at you at all they are just general comments and do not refer to just UK citizens in France. According to the BBC there are approximately 200,000 British living in France who are at or over retirement age although in fairness they don't say where their data comes from. The biggest group is in Spain, some 761,000 of them but again they don't say where that data comes from. I would have thought the obvious place to look for the information would be the DWP. I should add that I had a little 'poke' around on their website but can't find any figures to back this up, in fact I can't find any figures at all.
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[quote user="Bugsy"][quote user="NormanH"]It might not be a bad thing if the UK were to leave, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status.

[/quote]

So predictable Norman,  talking out of your a r s e again.

.

[/quote]

The point is that for a few years British and other European immigrants to France have had a privileged status with respect to other non-European immigrants, and been sheltered from some of the difficulties that these people face.

This has included the fact that no 'carte de séjour' is required, that British people can vote in local elections, that their health care is often paid for by those working in Britain, and that no test of language ability or knowledge of France is required.

There are also double taxation treaties, and OAP increases are paid.

These things are because of membership of Europe, not because the French particularly want these concessions.

They create a belief that Brits are not really immigrants, more 'ex-pats' and that they are somehow on a higher plane than other groups.

If the UK were no longer part of the EU this might well all change, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status...as immigrants.

While I am always open to reasoned argument I fail to see why stating the obvious is synonymous with uttering from my nether regions

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[quote user="NormanH"]

The point is that for a few years British and other European immigrants to France have had a privileged status with respect to other non-European immigrants, and been sheltered from some of the difficulties that these people face.

This has included the fact that no 'carte de séjour' is required, that British people can vote in local elections, that their health care is often paid for by those working in Britain, and that no test of language ability or knowledge of France is required.

There are also double taxation treaties, and OAP increases are paid.

These things are because of membership of Europe, not because the French particularly want these concessions.

They create a belief that Brits are not really immigrants, more 'ex-pats' and that they are somehow on a higher plane than other groups.

[/quote]

There is, of course, another reason for the differences which you always omit in your ramblings about the plight of non-european immigrants.

We pay our way.

.

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The present coalition would break up very quickly if there was the merest hint of discussing British withdrawal and I doubt there is a majority in parliament for it. But if it were to happen, I doubt that it would be quick or that any of us can foresee what the consequences would be at an individual level.

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Norman talking out of his nether regions again:

"that their health care is often paid for by those working in Britain, and that no test of language ability or knowledge of France is required.
There are also double taxation treaties, and OAP increases are paid."

Absolute Rollox Norman, the majority of us worked all our working lives and paid our share of dues and anything we get is what we're entitled to, and what WE paid in for. By the way; how's your UK pension you were asking advice about a little while ago? 

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[quote user="Quillan"]Come on, nobody is patronising you,, nobody has pointed a figure directly at you at all they are just general comments and do not refer to just UK citizens in France. According to the BBC there are approximately 200,000 British living in France who are at or over retirement age although in fairness they don't say where their data comes from. The biggest group is in Spain, some 761,000 of them but again they don't say where that data comes from. I would have thought the obvious place to look for the information would be the DWP. I should add that I had a little 'poke' around on their website but can't find any figures to back this up, in fact I can't find any figures at all.[/quote]

Now who's generalising and, yes, generally talking down to others?

Did I say that somebody is patronising me?  Goodness, there are people who can't open their mouths without first engaging their brains!

And please do not try to blind me with science or indeed figures for which you have no means of checking.

Of course, nobody patronises me...............and if they tried, I am still perfectly capable of seeing them off with a flea in their ear.

I don't like this talk of OAPs as though they (we) are some group of aliens who leech off others and are too gaga to work things out for themselves.

Why ASSUME that it would be OAPs who are going to have the "worst problems".  We have moved to France because we have chosen to and if circumstances for our residence change, we are able to resolve things ourselves.

Put another way, none of your so-called concern and thrashing about with regards to our "situation" is required.  Thank you very much.

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[quote user="NickP"]

Norman talking out of his nether regions again:

"that their health care is often paid for by those working in Britain, and that no test of language ability or knowledge of France is required.
There are also double taxation treaties, and OAP increases are paid."

Absolute Rollox Norman, the majority of us worked all our working lives and paid our share of dues and anything we get is what we're entitled to, and what WE paid in for. By the way; how's your UK pension you were asking advice about a little while ago? 

[/quote]

Not true in fact you had no choice but to sign in to a glorified government "ponzi" scheme where no vested interest is ever obtained.

You are hanging on the string of a "puppet" dependent on the roll over of government debt and taxation; the day it all collapses you'll be first in the queue at the "Restos du Coeur".

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Ouch, that hurt!

Anyway, I really don't think the UK govt would be too keen to have up to a million OAPs suddenly returning to the UK and blocking up the system with their demands for heating and other allowances, medical care and housing, many too gaga to know what is going on, wandering the streets wearing sombreros and clutching chains of garlic! Is that leeching?

 

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[quote user="woolybanana"]

Ouch, that hurt!

Anyway, I really don't think the UK govt would be too keen to have up to a million OAPs suddenly returning to the UK and blocking up the system with their demands for heating and other allowances, medical care and housing, many too gaga to know what is going on, wandering the streets wearing sombreros and clutching chains of garlic! Is that leeching?

 

[/quote]

Lots of them already get heating allowance !!!

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[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="woolybanana"]

Ouch, that hurt!

Anyway, I really don't think the UK govt would be too keen to have up to a million OAPs suddenly returning to the UK and blocking up the system with their demands for heating and other allowances, medical care and housing, many too gaga to know what is going on, wandering the streets wearing sombreros and clutching chains of garlic! Is that leeching?

 

[/quote]

Lots of them already get heating allowance !!!

[/quote]

My interpretation of W's post was that he referred to refugee OAPs with their cold arthritic feet already affected by the cool welcome of the "insular" soil.

P.S There have been long boring threads on forums throughout the expatriate "brit" diaspora all over the world on this topic; a rehash, yet again, on this thread would be time wasting and unproductive.

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Norman wrote,

The point is that for a few years British and other European immigrants to France have had a privileged status with respect to other non-European immigrants, and been sheltered from some of the difficulties that these people face.
This has included the fact that no 'carte de séjour' is required, that British people can vote in local elections, that their health care is often paid for by those working in Britain, and that no test of language ability or knowledge of France is required.
There are also double taxation treaties, and OAP increases are paid.
These things are because of membership of Europe, not because the French particularly want these concessions.
They create a belief that Brits are not really immigrants, more 'ex-pats' and that they are somehow on a higher plane than other groups.

If the UK were no longer part of the EU this might well all change, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status...as immigrants.

While I am always open to reasoned argument I fail to see why stating the obvious is synonymous with uttering from my nether regions 
 

But surely when the French go to live in the UK, they also receive an even more  "privileged status". They receive TOTALLY free healthcare, no one is asking them to take out top up cover, which may weed out the sick ones and stop them moving to the UK.  No, the UK will pay the lot, all they have to do is decide to live here.

No CDS or its equivalent is required by them, all they have to do is decide to live here. The UK lets them vote in its elections, allows double tax treaties.

These things are possible because the UK is a richer country than France, people in the UK work harder and longer than the average French person, and have of course enjoyed the spoils of war over the centuries, but of course to do this you must first win the war, not something the French have a lot of knowledge about. :-)

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[quote user="NormanH"]The point is that for a few years British and other European immigrants to France have had a privileged status with respect to other non-European immigrants, and been sheltered from some of the difficulties that these people face.
This has included the fact that no 'carte de séjour' is required, that British people can vote in local elections, that their health care is often paid for by those working in Britain, and that no test of language ability or knowledge of France is required.
There are also double taxation treaties, and OAP increases are paid.
These things are because of membership of Europe, not because the French particularly want these concessions.
They create a belief that Brits are not really immigrants, more 'ex-pats' and that they are somehow on a higher plane than other groups.
If the UK were no longer part of the EU this might well all change, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status...as immigrants.
While I am always open to reasoned argument I fail to see why stating the obvious is synonymous with uttering from my nether regions
[/quote]

Despite Normy's provocative vituperative bias and inverted snobbery comments with regard to Brits in France may I remind him (stats on the forum) there are more French in the UK, who come the day Brits are obliged to leave, no doubt would see the necessity to return to France; -  Along with all the eastern European immigrants France was happy enough to extend passage to Britain for our benefits (Czas nauczyć się francuskiego facetów). Changes even perhaps (at last) to ownership of the English utilities the French national companies were happy to snaffle up. Perhaps ex BAE & RR development technicians no longer required on Aerobus development would find gainful employment working for Boeing or Embraer, etc, etc. In short Britain is giving more than it receives, not to mention what goes around comes around.

Come the next aggrandisement of Germany and fall (yet again) of France, perhaps the saviours might just hang on to it next time, they might even rename it Aquitaine.

Up yours with a wa-wa brush Normy[:D][:P]

 

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[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Quillan"]Come on, nobody is patronising you,, nobody has pointed a figure directly at you at all they are just general comments and do not refer to just UK citizens in France. According to the BBC there are approximately 200,000 British living in France who are at or over retirement age although in fairness they don't say where their data comes from. The biggest group is in Spain, some 761,000 of them but again they don't say where that data comes from. I would have thought the obvious place to look for the information would be the DWP. I should add that I had a little 'poke' around on their website but can't find any figures to back this up, in fact I can't find any figures at all.[/quote]

Now who's generalising and, yes, generally talking down to others?

Did I say that somebody is patronising me?  Goodness, there are people who can't open their mouths without first engaging their brains!

And please do not try to blind me with science or indeed figures for which you have no means of checking.

Of course, nobody patronises me...............and if they tried, I am still perfectly capable of seeing them off with a flea in their ear.

I don't like this talk of OAPs as though they (we) are some group of aliens who leech off others and are too gaga to work things out for themselves.

Why ASSUME that it would be OAPs who are going to have the "worst problems".  We have moved to France because we have chosen to and if circumstances for our residence change, we are able to resolve things ourselves.

Put another way, none of your so-called concern and thrashing about with regards to our "situation" is required.  Thank you very much.

[/quote]

Exactly and some can't even write without insulting somebody.

We will all be OAP's one day, if not already, and yes you might be smug being able to support yourselves but there are many who may not be able to do so but then your attitude appears to be I'm all right Jack and sod the rest. Wonderful, shows exactly where you are coming from.

Believe me if I wanted to put my nasty hat on and be condescending there wouldn't' be any flees in my ears but at least there would be half a brain between them.

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[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Quillan"]Come on, nobody is patronising you,, nobody has pointed a figure directly at you at all they are just general comments and do not refer to just UK citizens in France. According to the BBC there are approximately 200,000 British living in France who are at or over retirement age although in fairness they don't say where their data comes from. The biggest group is in Spain, some 761,000 of them but again they don't say where that data comes from. I would have thought the obvious place to look for the information would be the DWP. I should add that I had a little 'poke' around on their website but can't find any figures to back this up, in fact I can't find any figures at all.[/quote]

Now who's generalising and, yes, generally talking down to others?

Did I say that somebody is patronising me?  Goodness, there are people who can't open their mouths without first engaging their brains!

And please do not try to blind me with science or indeed figures for which you have no means of checking.

Of course, nobody patronises me...............and if they tried, I am still perfectly capable of seeing them off with a flea in their ear.

I don't like this talk of OAPs as though they (we) are some group of aliens who leech off others and are too gaga to work things out for themselves.

Why ASSUME that it would be OAPs who are going to have the "worst problems".  We have moved to France because we have chosen to and if circumstances for our residence change, we are able to resolve things ourselves.

Put another way, none of your so-called concern and thrashing about with regards to our "situation" is required.  Thank you very much.

[/quote]

Exactly and some can't even write without insulting somebody.

We will all be OAP's one day, if not already, and yes you might be smug being able to support yourselves but there are many who may not be able to do so but then your attitude appears to be I'm all right Jack and sod the rest. Wonderful, shows exactly where you are coming from.

Believe me if I wanted to put my nasty hat on and be condescending there wouldn't' be any flees in my ears but at least there would be half a brain between them.

[/quote]

Ok, seeing that you are determined to personlise things even though I always strive not to mention specific individuals, we'll reluctantly discard our gloves, shall we?

I find that (the highlighted bits of your post) truly rich coming from you.  Was it not you who always gloats whenever the pound falls a bit against the euro and can't wait to tell us how you have a thriving business in the eurozone and one moreover where important international guests gather of a morning to have breakfast and discuss the financial and political affairs of the day?

No, indeed, I fear that I am strangely unmoved and unconvinced by your semi-coherent and almost totally incomprehensible ramblings.

Now, perhaps I ought to get on with my ironing whilst my heures creuses are in operation and hadn't you better go and prepare the vegetables for dinner?

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[quote user="woolybanana"]

Ouch, that hurt!

Anyway, I really don't think the UK govt would be too keen to have up to a million OAPs suddenly returning to the UK and blocking up the system with their demands for heating and other allowances, medical care and housing, many too gaga to know what is going on, wandering the streets wearing sombreros and clutching chains of garlic! Is that leeching?

 

[/quote]

No doubt the day will come soon enough, Wools, when I shall be a little, old, shrivelled lady in some Care Home (somehow Care and Home don't really go together, but nevermind) and the staff will address me as Sweet instead of Madame la Chatelaine.

Then, I shall be defenceless and will get my comeuppance, no doubt!

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[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Quillan"]Come on, nobody is patronising you,, nobody has pointed a figure directly at you at all they are just general comments and do not refer to just UK citizens in France. According to the BBC there are approximately 200,000 British living in France who are at or over retirement age although in fairness they don't say where their data comes from. The biggest group is in Spain, some 761,000 of them but again they don't say where that data comes from. I would have thought the obvious place to look for the information would be the DWP. I should add that I had a little 'poke' around on their website but can't find any figures to back this up, in fact I can't find any figures at all.[/quote]

Now who's generalising and, yes, generally talking down to others?

Did I say that somebody is patronising me?  Goodness, there are people who can't open their mouths without first engaging their brains!

And please do not try to blind me with science or indeed figures for which you have no means of checking.

Of course, nobody patronises me...............and if they tried, I am still perfectly capable of seeing them off with a flea in their ear.

I don't like this talk of OAPs as though they (we) are some group of aliens who leech off others and are too gaga to work things out for themselves.

Why ASSUME that it would be OAPs who are going to have the "worst problems".  We have moved to France because we have chosen to and if circumstances for our residence change, we are able to resolve things ourselves.

Put another way, none of your so-called concern and thrashing about with regards to our "situation" is required.  Thank you very much.

[/quote]

Exactly and some can't even write without insulting somebody.

We will all be OAP's one day, if not already, and yes you might be smug being able to support yourselves but there are many who may not be able to do so but then your attitude appears to be I'm all right Jack and sod the rest. Wonderful, shows exactly where you are coming from.

Believe me if I wanted to put my nasty hat on and be condescending there wouldn't' be any flees in my ears but at least there would be half a brain between them.

[/quote]

Ok, seeing that you are determined to personlise things even though I always strive not to mention specific individuals, we'll reluctantly discard our gloves, shall we?

I find that (the highlighted bits of your post) truly rich coming from you.  Was it not you who always gloats whenever the pound falls a bit against the euro and can't wait to tell us how you have a thriving business in the eurozone and one moreover where important international guests gather of a morning to have breakfast and discuss the financial and political affairs of the day?

No, indeed, I fear that I am strangely unmoved and unconvinced by your semi-coherent and almost totally incomprehensible ramblings.

Now, perhaps I ought to get on with my ironing whilst my heures creuses are in operation and hadn't you better go and prepare the vegetables for dinner?

[/quote]

You better get to Specsavers quick, there is 60% off for OAP's then read my posts properly then.

All my guests are important, they pay money to come and stay here, it's called customer service.

If on the other hand you are saying that I have said I have "important international guests" in another way then you best go back and have another read. Only once twice, because it was the same person, have I mentioned a famous person who has stayed with us wand was and old ageing pop star and that's about it.

Of course if the guests start talking about financial affairs of the day I listen in. It's nice to hear first hand instead of reading biased comments in newspapers or on the TV as to how other nationalities feel about these things. If you have a string of German guests (as just one example) stay over the year and they all say the same thing then chances are there is an element of truth in what they are saying and feeling.

I thought you were going to mention my kitchen, I have mentioned that more than I have my "thriving business in the eurozone ". Actually I have a couple but then I don't go on about them, I doubt you even know what the other is which rather nullifies that comment.

If your going to come to the table and take off your gloves please make sure that if you demand facts from others you present yours.

My dinner is cooked my ironing was done yesterday, Sunday is a day of rugby, beer and rest.

By the way, in the unlikely event of the UK exiting the EU and based on your previous comments in this thread and on the assumption your living in an EU state, I won't expect to hear one word nor see one word of complaint when your state pension ceases to increase each year nor that you won't get your winter fuel allowance.

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Just a couple of thoughts...

The Euro was a disaster since day one because some countries cheated to get in and almost all cheated to stay in.

Maybe they can change that with the "new" rules, but they seem to be just planning to keep the old ones, backed by "automatic sanctions", so is anything really changing? (Rhetorical question)

Cameron was probably right to distance UK from helping the bailout via the EU, provided he is correct in not wishing UK to get further involved in the EU. He has started the ball rolling for exit.

The proposed Constitutional changes were just the thin end of a rather thick wedge. A bit like the original proposal to join a trading group called the Common Market - back in the 60's, was it? It was always intended by the first members to develop as it has done.

On the other hand Cameron could have agreed to the Treaty change, joined the Euro while insisting on very good terms, and influenced Euro reform from inside the EU instead of becoming marginalised.

The future of the EU is in monetary union and federalism, whether Britain likes it or not. Both colours of  UK govt. have been pretending it isn't for years, while the rest of the countries know it is.Many people in Britain don't seem to know the difference between the EU and the Euro countries anyway. They do, however, think that things involving France are often on the dodgy side.

A large proportion of french in UK are below retirement age, running businesses or working, and paying taxes. I see no reason for the government to seek to remove them if UK were to leave the EU. The Brits in France who are not working and could not afford to stay if their incomes or benefits were reduced would just leave of their own accord, there would be little reason to seek to remove those able to support themselves. I worked in both France and Spain before the EU.

I don't think we personally could afford to stay in France with UK out of the EU, as we'd probably lose our health care here. Maybe Spain would be OK for us, as we have spanish pensions and are probably still entitled to health care there.

 

Edit: Paragraph spacing. Correct error.

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[quote user="nomoss"]

Just a couple of thoughts...

The Euro was a disaster since day one because some countries cheated to get in and almost all cheated to stay in.

Maybe they can change that with the "new" rules, but they seem to be just planning to keep the old ones, backed by "automatic sanctions", so is anything really changing? (Rhetorical question)

Cameron was probably right to distance UK from helping the bailout via the EU, provided he is correct in not wishing UK to get further involved in the EU. He has started the ball rolling for exit.

The proposed Constitutional changes were just the thin end of a rather thick wedge. A bit like the original proposal to join a trading group called the Common Market - back in the 60's, was it? It was always intended by the first members to develop as it has done.

On the other hand Cameron could have agreed to the Treaty change, joined the Euro while insisting on very good terms, and influenced Euro reform from inside the EU instead of becoming marginalised.

The future of the EU is in monetary union and federalism, whether Britain likes it or not. Both colours of  UK govt. have been pretending it isn't for years, while the rest of the countries know it is.Many people in Britain don't seem to know the difference between the EU and the Euro countries anyway. They do, however, think that things involving France are often on the dodgy side.

A large proportion of french in UK are below retirement age, running businesses or working, and paying taxes. I see no reason for the government to seek to remove them if UK were to leave the EU. The Brits in France who are not working and could not afford to stay if their incomes or benefits were reduced would just leave of their own accord, there would be little reason to seek to remove those able to support themselves. I worked in both France and Spain before the EU.

I don't think we personally could afford to stay in France with UK out of the EU, as we'd probably lose our health care here. Maybe Spain would be OK for us, as we have spanish pensions and are probably still entitled to health care there.

 

Edit: Paragraph spacing. Correct error.

[/quote]

The germans are considering changing the current € 10 per quarter health levy regardless of number of visits to the doctor to a system reflecting actual utilisation at € 5 per visit. Much less than the current french charge of € 23 per visit.

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