"From our own correspondent"

[Pickles]

I was listening to FOOC yesterday (IMHO, this has for many years been a gem in the BBC's productions) and heard an article by Hugh Schofield, of which the transcript is here. You don't have to agree with it, but it is thought-provoking and perhaps underlines the views of those posters here whose views are somewhat less than rose-tinted.

[Bugsy]

Typical cr*p from someone who should know better.

He would do well, along with a lot of politicians, to consider this.

London isn't England just as Paris isn't France.

.

[Quillan]

I am a bit amazed that the reporter has taken so long to discover Gare du Nord is a bit of a dump and in the middle of a inner city where crime is ripe. I have visited it a few time over the years. I always remember the first taxi driver who told us to put everything in the boot and to lock the doors because people may try and steal things from us when we stop at traffic lights. It's not the best place to have an international rail terminus. There are other cities in France where it is much the same, areas where there is danger, Toulouse, Carcassonne, Marseilles for example and as Bugsy said not all of France is like these places but the point is they do exist although those with the very rose coloured glasses seem to think or believe otherwise.

I also think the reporter should consider going by car and then return. The dual carriageway that leaves Dover is covered in rubbish, black bags etc hanging from the trees, McDonald's food containers littering the roundabouts, not exactly a warm welcome.

[YCCMB]

I think the comments so far tend to suggest that the readers have read what they wanted into the first couple of paragraphs, without necessarily reading the whole transcript.

Using the two stations (St Pancras and Gare du Nord) as metaphors for the national mood in the two countries is fair enough, IMO. Yes, the Gare du Nord and its surrounding area have been pretty awful for many long years, as I'm sure the journalist (by his own admission, a 16-year veteran of living in France: longer than many of us) knows well. St. Pancras Eurostar terminal and the surrounding regenerated area is certainly a more welcoming and cleaner, fresher, more vibrant place.

It goes deeper, though.  I've certainly noticed, as a fairly infrequent visitor to London - albeit that I only live "down the road" - a real legacy (oh, how I'm coming to hate that word) from the Summer. Now, whether it's all to do with the Olympics, Cricket, Golf, Tour de France or whatever, I wouldn't know. However, I'm noticing politeness and pleasantness on the tube and trains (yes, really: cheerful announcements, people offering seats, helping the less physically able and smiling at one another), and a bit of a positive mood. Is it endemic? I don't know. I can, however, believe that, after the recent budget announcements in France, there are many who are feeling somewhat less than positive. Over 50,000 of them have indicated their support on Facebook for "les Pigeons" for example.

'Twas ever thus, however. All the arguments put forward by the "France good/England bad" lobby have long focused on comparisons between inner-city (or even outer-city) UK and La France Profonde. I've never recognised their UK as mine. Now, here comes someone who is saying what many of us have said for years: France has some crappy places. But that is NOT the main point of his article. He's suggesting that perhaps the national mood in the UK is more optimistic than that in France.

All I would say is that for some people (a lot of them French) that view appears to have some veracity.

[NormanH]

I have long said that things in France are far from rosy, and there is certainly plenty of gloom around, yet life goes on with friends opening new businesses, and others still managing to sell property despite the slowdown.

What really surprises me is what is being said about the mood in the UK both in the article, and in Betty's post

I have to believe what I read since I haven't been there recently and only for one visit this century, but I have family and friends in the West country who are absolutely desperate, either because of being made redundant because of cuts in funding , or because of problems with the NHS, even because of the awful weather, and the even worse shower governing the place.

I have a feeling that there is an effort being made to 'talk the UK up ' by the Media with the emphasis on sporting success, as if that had anything to do with important matters. At the same time I notice a definite desire to 'talk Europe down', and blame all ills on Brussels.

France hasn't had comparable achievements in sport, nor the hysteria over the Jubilee, but I still manage to have an enjoyable time here in my grimy little city.

[idun]

I don't need to listen to FOOC about this, I very very simply watch french news most nights. I listen to  french friends and they are telling me how things are. The mood is dark at the moment.

I never lived anywhere 'rosey'. My old village was just a base for many, who worked in the local towns and cities, they just lived their lives. 

 

[nomoss]

I wonder if Mr Schofield ever goes to Kings Cross, next door. We sometimes visit a relative who lives nearby in what looks and feels to me like a slum area (but we are told the tiny houses there sell for up to a million)

Last time I passed by was during the G20 Summit protests. Roads to the south were closed off, the Underground had been closed, crowds of people were milling around wondering what to do as dozens of police tried to shepherd them where they didn't want to go, and the din of low flying helicopters with spotlights in the dark sky added to the rather frightening chaos. At least I didn't notice the usual bums, beggars, touts, and litter.

On a previous visit in recent times there were beggars aplenty in and around the station, and not far away, in the direction of Caledonian Road (there's a salubrious place!) a group of drunken winos sitting or laying on cardboard and newspapers sang or shouted abuse at passers by as the mood took them.

Or maybe it was all cleaned up for the Jubilee/Olympics?

[idun]

But surely the good thing when you were there during the G20 summit protests the good thing was that there were no Compagnies Républicaines de Sécurité watching and waiting........ as they would have been in France[Www] 

[nomoss]

[quote user="idun"]

But surely the good thing when you were there during the G20 summit protests the good thing was that there were no Compagnies Républicaines de Sécurité watching and waiting........ as they would have been in France[Www] 

[/quote]

Maybe. I'm just glad we weren't still in the City, trying to find our way home through the police cordons.

I might just have looked like a confused newspaper seller.............

[woolybanana]

Well, I just had a week in SW London and the West Country and I saw no beggars, no poverty, loadsa really yummy mummies with 4x4s and Audis and like vehicles, tons of old people, a brilliant M and S, too many cars, Anne Summers in full buzz, excellent country hotels, far too many speed controls.

Central London was very clean, no sleepers seen, no druggies, little graffiti.

Yet my cousin was moaning about the demise of the NHS, impossible to get an appointment in under three weeks, never seeing a doctor just a nursie etc.

And, Q, I did not notice the muck on the side of the road you mentioned.

The only down side was in Brussels before going to the YewKay where some young thug smashed one of my driving mirrors and tried to tear off the other.

So, who wants to go to the Caledonian Road unless they have to.

[6]

[YCCMB]

I don't know if anyone on here would have seen this BBC series, but it was one of the most interesting things I've watched on BBC2 in a while.

The episode on Caledonian Road ably demonstrated that it hasn't really changed much since it was built. So there you have it. Caledonian Road - a bit of a S***hole. Breaking news?

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k6k3m[/url]

[nomoss]

I saw the programme on Caledonian Road.

I was simply contrasting Mr Schofield's description of St Pancras as a gem with the scene less than 100 yards away.

But then, he probably gets straight into a taxi outside the station, without taking the opportunity to broaden his horizons, and maybe his views, by strolling down the road a bit.

[YCCMB]

True enough. Although in my experience you have to walk a lot further than 100 yards from the Gare du Nord before hitting anything a bit more salubrious.

[powerdesal]

I would echo, to some extent, what WB has said.

We have just had 3 weeks in UK, visiting places like Wells, Salisbury etc.

We never visited any ''inner city'' areas - we had no reason to. We found people being friendly, happy, miserable, up-beat, down beat - in other words people being normal.

Supermarkets were cheap, clean, well stocked, shops had helpful friendly staff.

The NHS can be a problem and there are too many speed cameras but life was / is not all bad, nor is it all good.

The UK has it's problems, so does France.

[Rabbie]

Living in the same area as WB and Powerdesal have just visited I see a different picture. In most of the towns in Somerset/Wiltshire there is no shortage of beggars and homeless people. During a short walk in Salisbury I saw at least 10 without deliberately going in search of them. This is typical for all the towns around here. Maybe it's because tourists don't go to the less salubrious areas.

They say the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and this may explain why so many people who move from the UK to France return within 10 years. Atleast if they manage to sell their house[:)] 

[Judith]

Whilst it is now almost 4 years since I left the UK to live here permanently, as you will see from my sig, I lived not far from the KX / ST P under discussion and since all my relatives live on the KX line, walked over to the stations quite regularly ... to visit them, or come to France.  Parts of the KX area are indeed not very pleasant to look at, and there are certainly (or were) some no-go areas, but you soon sussed which ones they were and avoided them.  Even as a single female I felt safe in most parts of central London (lived there 20 years) - in fact more so than in the suburbs, which I used to find most unpleasant.

I've not been to the Gare du Nord for some years, and only when I needed to be in Paris itself, chosing rather to travel via Lille, but I do remember most of that part of Paris as being pretty grotty, as could be expected from most inner city areas.

The interesting thing is that London has tried hard to improve the inner city areas when possible;  I don't see the same result in Paris.

[Hoddy]

I don't think you can asses the mood of a whole country from its capital city. I can't speak about Paris but London is now much more difficult to visit from the provinces and when you get there it feels like another country.

I don't think you could describe the mood around here as cheerful; people are still pleasant and polite even though the down turn in the economy shows. The only things that seem to be prospering are charity shops.

Hoddy