Paint !

[Gardian]

Let me say right from the start that this isn't a thread about 'shock horror - how expensive paint is over here'.  We all know that and yes it is extortionate - my question though is "Why?"

This all started when my neighbour remarked on the pricing and then I had to buy some myself. Out of interest, I checked on the UK Homebase website just to see whether I was completely out of date after 8 years over here or whether the prices really were double. Needless to say, they more or less are double and with some of the offers on (£10 for a 5ltr can of white emulsion), then its an enormous gulf.

So I googled 'Dulux': I thought that was an ICI brand. It was until 2008, but its now owned by a massive Dutch global corporation - Akzo Nobel, which in 2010 was (apparently) the world's most profitable company (they also own Crown Berger, Sadolin & Cuprinol amongst many others).

Anyway, none of that really answers my question. Paint has always been pricey here, but presumably Dulux was always UK-manufactured, so the base cost has always been the same, but with a small additional cost of export.

Is the answer that they've always charged what they could get for it and competitors follow suit?  In short, a cartel? 

[woolybanana]

There are four Dulux factories in France.

[Quillan]

I finally got an answer to this last year and it seems quite plausible. Apparently French paints are not to contain any toxic chemicals so substitutes are used. Unfortunately these substitutes make the paint more expensive. I have no idea if this is true but having read the label on paint tins in France they normally say they meet some form of environmental standard. You will also note that many paints and varnishes in France are water based, well the brushes are normally cleaned in water which may also explain this further.

[idun]

If there were no toxic substances in the rubbish they sold in 1982, when I bought my first pot, then I'll be flabbergasted.

I always looked upon it simply like mustard.

 In France most people use mustard every day, you can buy a big jar at a very low price. And yet most french people I know will decorate every ten or 15 or twenty years, I have never met anyone who did it any more often...... I just haven't met them, although probably there is.

And yet, in England, because that is where I live(d), the mustard used to be very expensive, (a bit cheaper now I admit), because people didn't use french mustard that often. However, the longest anyone I know leaves it between a lick of paint is three years, and often it is every year or two, and in my MIL's case, when they were both smokers, every six months.

If there was a bigger turn over of paint, then maybe it would come down in price in France. That's my theory anyway........ it's to do with the turnover.

Incidentally the first time I decided to decorate my sejour in France, with white matt paint, it took four coats....... or five, it was like the Forth Rail Bridge, it seemed to go on for ever............ and the paint was not cheap. Paint did improve later.

[Quillan]

Well 1982, they must have still had several billion litres of brown paint that they got from the Germans to pay them back for the war. You were very adventurous to use white, I bet you were the talk of the village. [;-)]

Talking of white, this must be the new brown now as most of my friends houses are now painted white inside although the brown tiles and curtains still remain. You could tell those with money as they had brown bathroom suites as well rather than the cheaper white stuff. The people who owned our house before us were very rich. They had wallpaper, with stripes in the lounge and dinning room plus an American hand built kitchen and the bathroom and toilet that were painted dark red with a dark red bath etc all with glitter (not the Gary type) mixed in.

Perhaps the German sold the French the white paint as many German houses are painted white inside.

[Gardian]

[quote user="woolybanana"]There are four Dulux factories in France.[/quote]

I stand corrected WB, although I sort-of felt that it had to have been manufactured over here.

 

[Gardian]

[quote user="Quillan"]I finally got an answer to this last year and it seems quite plausible. Apparently French paints are not to contain any toxic chemicals so substitutes are used. Unfortunately these substitutes make the paint more expensive. [/quote]

If its true Q, it does sound plausible. But a doubling of the price?

And yes, Idun, demand must be a factor. 

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Gardian"]

[quote user="Quillan"]I finally got an answer to this last year and it seems quite plausible. Apparently French paints are not to contain any toxic chemicals so substitutes are used. Unfortunately these substitutes make the paint more expensive. [/quote]

If its true Q, it does sound plausible. But a doubling of the price?

And yes, Idun, demand must be a factor. 

[/quote]

That'd probably be the 2004 EU Directive on Volatile Organic Compounds, then, maybe?

If so, I think the clue as to the veracity of that explanation lies in the words "EU". It's exactly the same legislation that the UK has to comply with...

I think there's an ISO standard, too. Quick Google says that it came into being in 2002 with levels revised in 2006. I don't think France is likely to have devised a separate and distinct legislation, much as they love to feel "unique". If they have, and the result is so grossly overpriced, one can assume they're not bothered about developing an export market..

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Gardian"]

[quote user="Quillan"]I finally got an answer to this last year and it seems quite plausible. Apparently French paints are not to contain any toxic chemicals so substitutes are used. Unfortunately these substitutes make the paint more expensive. [/quote]

If its true Q, it does sound plausible. But a doubling of the price?

And yes, Idun, demand must be a factor. 

[/quote]

That'd probably be the 2004 EU Directive on Volatile Organic Compounds, then, maybe?

If so, I think the clue as to the veracity of that explanation lies in the words "EU". It's exactly the same legislation that the UK has to comply with...

I think there's an ISO standard, too. Quick Google says that it came into being in 2002 with levels revised in 2006. I don't think France is likely to have devised a separate and distinct legislation, much as they love to feel "unique". If they have, and the result is so grossly overpriced, one can assume they're not bothered about developing an export market..

[Quillan]

I will say a couple of things in defence of French paint but I would also like to make clear I have only ever used Leroy Merlin own brand paint.

I noticed that they say on the tin to add about 10% water as standard (as opposed to adding water for a particular reason) which implies your getting a concentrate.

I mentioned rather jokingly my dark red bathroom. It was half tiled with red walls and ceiling. The separate toilet was the same colour. I bought one of those massive Dulux trade tins from the UK of white silk paint and used almost all in trying to cover the red paint. Having run out of paint I went and bought some from Leroy Merlin, one coat covered it all perfectly. OK I thought, I had a good start with the 10L of Dulux as a base so lets try the toilet. Just two coats of the Leroy Merlin paint was all that was required. My conclusion, the Leroy Merlin paint covered much better than the Dulux trade even when watered down as directed and had effectively cost me a lot less per square metre. I still use their paint and normally one coat is all that's needed. Don't do gloss work although I have re-varnished some internal doors and I use Mr Bricolarge own water based gloss varnish and one coat was fine.

For external shutters I always, well twice in 11 years used Bondex and think given that it lasted 9 years using one coat is pretty good.

[Théière]

Dulux white paint contains titanium which makes it appear extra white, like the lines on a tennis court etc. The raw material cost of titanium has risen sharply because a lot of it comes from China and they like the oil companies hold us to ransom. Other brands use chalk etc to whiten their paint.

Titanium does mean the paint reflects UV light from CFL lamps etc which acts as a huge attraction to mosquitoes etc.  In my house using an off white stopped this effect and also stopped it looking like a dentist waiting room.

Paint prices in the UK are also rising quite quickly except for the poor end of the market where they add more water son i would expect the UK to reach parity with France reasonably soon although Johnstones etc are better value than Dulux and the white gloss doesn't yellow as fast as Dulux which has really ruined their reputation amongst the trade.

[idun]

When we moved into our house in 1983, half finished house I must add, the window frames all needed varnishing. I was delighted to find some Valentine/Dulux varnish, yes, it was marked like that on the side of the tin. It was horrible to put on and then it would not dry, three days it took, if memory serves well. I did the bedroom window first as we could leave the shutters shut. I had to find an alternative for the other windows, no idea what it was, but whatever it was, it wasn't as awful. After many years, I found Zweihorn varnish which was ICI initially and very good, but that was ICI Germany.

LOL My french neighbour and good friend told me a couple of weeks ago that they had just repainted all the interior white, last time they decorated was about 13 years ago, so there you go.