New roof postponed - neighbour doesn't want my water!

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

Our proposed new roof is postponed until we can resolve a tricky issue. The house is semi-detached in the typical (?) french way, i.e. odd bits of wall are shared in different places. One pitched roof extends down from our house over a shared (party wall - I presume) wall and continues over to my neighbour's side. About two thirds of the roof is mine and one third is his.

I was about to renew my roof when he told me I must have a gutter at the party wall because he doesn't want my rainwater on his roof.

He's probably right from a legal point of view but I'd be interested in comments. This situation has existed for at least 20 years. Does this set a precadent? Is he taking advantage of me as a new owner? Can I get him to back down? 

One thing I do know - it'll always be cheaper to give him his gutter than for me to get properly and expensively legal about this.

[Tony F Dordogne]

I wouldn't bother with the lawyer.

For neighbourly relations, put the gutter in and run the water into recuperateur - if your weather in the future is anything like it was from May to July, you'll need every drop of it if you want anything like a garden.

[Pads]

I totally agree with tony, and dont let it put you off from starting your roof , Winter is coming!!!

In fact look at it as a favour, cos you wouldnt of thought of doing it your self , and like tony says you will want all that water in the summer. 

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

Saving the water didn't occur to me at all. But, to be honest I was expecting answers on the lines of  -.... just get on with the gutter ... it'll be cheaper in the long run.

It's just strange that 20 or more years of rainwater off a frenchman's roof was OK, but now we're in the house it's somehow different. 

[Tony F Dordogne]

Why do you think that it's because your not French?

Perhaps he's always had the humnp with it and now the property is changing hands it's the time to deal with it - if you think he's out to get you, wait until somebody who really is comes along.

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

Tony F D, reading your post makes me think you've personal knowledge of real neighbour trouble. If so, please let us know - forewarned is forearmed.

 

[Tony F Dordogne]

I'm pleased to say that I have only had the most cordial of relations with my neighbours, it was your comment about your neighbour that prompted my second post.

[Chancer]

It could be another simple language misunderstanding, he could have been saying "while you are redoing your roof remember to fit a gutter (which may well be a local requirement) which the last guy neglected".

[hamlets_shrink]

My comment about your neighbour is he's being a miserable pedantic old

fart, I can't stand folk like him, and they're crawling around

everywhere, not just in France.

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

J.R. - I can assure there was no misunderstanding about the meaning of the instruction nor the venomous way in which it was said. Even allowing for my relatively poor grasp of the spoken language, the words after much slow and repeated french which followed in accented English  - "it's the law, it's the law" - leave little room for doubt.

 

Hamlets_shrink - how very right you are! I wanted to say just that in my first post here, but I thought I'd be diplomatic and see the responses first.

 

My motto: Don't get mad - get even.

[Chancer]

Well if it is the law, and you are redoing the roof anyway surely he is doing you a favour by informing you, albeit in a venomous way.

I can't see why complying with the regulations would make you postpone roofing repairs unless there is some difficulty or large cost implications in doing so.

It is easy enough to fall out with neighbours when you speak the same language and share the same culture, I sincerely hope for you that this disagreement over a gutter will not detract from your enjoyment of your home and surroundings in the future.

[Tony F Dordogne]

But I don't understand why, if you want to continue with the work on your roof, you can't just fit the gutter and get on with things.

Surely you're just winding yourself up about this when for the relatively small outlay on guttering, you can replace/finish your roof and get on with life, especially if, as your neighbour says, it's the law.

You seem to have formed an opinion of your neighbour already and from your response to more aggressive/abusinve posts in this thread, it seems that you may be wanting the row rather than just getting on with things.

And if you are suggesting you'll get even in some way, you really do need to remember that you're the incomer here and if you think you may be getting even, the locals can - and if you take this approach, probably will - make your life difficult.

[Dick Smith]

How can someone telling you that you need to do something because it is the law - and it very probably is - be described as a 'pedantic old fart'? He just wants his rights observed - I get the feeling (like Tony) that for some reason you don't want to do this.

And Mr or Mrs Hamlets - that attitude must make you great to be around in France, or anywhere else probably.

I would echo what Tony has said. We have always been careful to be polite and helpful to our neighbours, so when we asked if we could put in a window which overlooked their property - and they could have vetoed that with no problem - he was so nice about it he even helped me to write the application in French. What goes around, etc.

[Russethouse]

I'd take the wind out of his sails and wrong foot him in the nicest possible way, by asking him to recommend or choose the guttering, within reason - Would he prefer black or grey, metal or plastic ? etc - I'm sure you can think of something - meet his animosity with charm - its better for your blood pressure and there is nothing more irritating [;-)][;-)]

[hamlets_shrink]

Thanks moderator, it's true there's no other way to deal with

characters like your neighbour than to grit your teeth and try and

assume a posture of magnanimity and perhaps a touch of equanimity

although it's difficult. You'll have to go with his demands.

Russethouse, like myself, has somehow grapsed this guy has approached

you with animosity, a factor lost on some of the other contributors.

The questions are; is the additional water causing his own gutter to

overflow ? compromising the integrity of his own roof ? causing damp

problems at the party wall ? is his roof leaking as a result of this

extra water from your roof ?  If it's yes to any of these

questions then there's no question you should attend to it and the

neighbours attitude is to a degree understandable. But if he's just

invoking the bitter letter of the law for the sake of pettiness and

bloody mindedness having already lived happily with the issue for the

last twenty years then there's cause for some concern I feel.

Unfortunately, you're not allowed to form an opinion about him or

you'll be censured for it here, I wonder how rude and difficult this

guy must become before others might allow you a little exasperation.

Perhaps there's no such word as 'pedantry' in the English language, or

if there is it's never to be used or attributed to someone.

[Hoddy]

I really don't understand what your problem is Hamlets_Shrink.

It seems quite simple to me -

1. The roof needs renewing

2. Legally ( apparently) the water should run down one's own roof,

3. If the roof is going to be renewed anyway, why not make it legal at the same time. ?

4. Whether or not the neighbour, or anybody else, is an old fart is irrelevant.

Hoddy

[hamlets_shrink]

OK, good; his neighbour is a miserable, pedantic old fart but he should

still get his roof fixed and make it legal at the same time, how's that

? I don't have a problem, just aired a view about this poor chaps

neighbour, and it's been the only view so far that he's recognised and

been happy with...so I guess I'm being neighbourly

[Tony F Dordogne]

The original post made no reference to the neighbour being rude, showing animosity or anything else come to that.  Just that the guy next door wants his rights observed which for many Brits, even here, seems to be the reason that the overlegalistic/sue anybody for anything culture has taken such a grip in the UK.

Wonder what the attitude would be if this was the other way around?  Asking for advice about how to stuff the new neighbour so he/she would have to comply with the law?

[Russethouse]

You are right Tony, the reference was further in:

>>I can assure there was no misunderstanding about the meaning of the instruction nor the venomous way in which it was said<<<

For all we know the guy might have not said anything to the previous owner for any number of reasons, I still think the best way is to refuse to be flustered and drawn into a disagreement, be as generous as possible, you never know it may pay dividends - eventually !

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

Ladies and Gentlemen, please, please all calm down. And what a miserable lot some of you can be. Initially I asked a question about the probable legality of my neighbour's firm request, and to show no bias and so as not to influence any later answers I deliberately omitted the fuller details of my discussion with the chap. I simply wondered if he was right and was there perhaps a way around the problem.

I have shown no irritation directly with the chap at all - I have smiled at him through gritted teeth all along as I know full well what disputes with neighbours can lead to. And yes, to have put up with it for over 20 years before my arrival does suggest he's taking a bit of advantage of me, is being a miserable old fart etc. and I don't like it much - would you? Surely the place to blow off a bit of steam is a chat site like this and maybe getting advice, a little sympathy and understanding from others who have experienced something in the same vein and not by kicking the cat or playing loud rock music through the party wall!

Yes, I am irritated because installing a gutter in the middle of this roof will be costly and has not been budgeted for. It means a big deep gutter say 30cm x 30cm and 8m long, a new roof beam (or two) and an internal rainwater waste pipe because he won't allow the waste pipe on his land either. The job will likely be postponed - the roofer wants to do a new devis and depending on his timing I may have missed our slot this year.

As for getting even - I'm not planning a hate campaign, it's just that at some time in the future I will get a little bit of pleasure when I can employ a situation to my own advantage when he needs my co-operation.

 

 

[hamlets_shrink]

and to show no bias and so as not to influence any later answers I

deliberately omitted the fuller details of my discussion with the chap.

The 'fuller details' were there plainly, implicit in your impetus to bring the subject to this forum in the first place.

Hey, 'nearly retired' everyone's starting to hate me for supporting you

on this, soon I'll be ejected and you'll have no support atall !

[hamlets_shrink]

Just to recapitulate the twists and turns of this thread in summarised

form for those who haven't quite grasped.  Poor old 'nearly

retired' is going to be up for quite a large structural alteration with

a fair amount of roof plumbing, perhaps 5,000 - 6,000 Euro over an

issue that currently isn't actually doing any harm to anyone. Creating

box gutters in places where they shouldn't be as far as the long term

optimum performance of a roof is concerned can be the source of many

unnecessary problems, for both neighbours. Even temporal French laws

can't override the laws of physics and provide an optimised solution

here. Plus the matter was broached rudely and uncompromisingly. 'Nearly

Retired' really just wanted a bit of understanding and to let off a bit

of steam among compatriots because I fear he's in a no win situation.

The Frenchman is being uncompromising about imposing an impractical and

redundant law.

Sometimes in life there comes a time when one must call a spade a spade.

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Just a practical suggestion that may help a bit with putting in a gutter without too much re-engineering:

I don't know where the roof is or the type of construction, so this may not be feasible, but in Brittany you see a lot of roofs where the gutteer is effectively on top of the lowest row of tiles (slates around here) , rather than hanging beneath the eaves. Sometims it actually has a few rows below it as well.

I assume that you could put the same sort of gutter half way up a roof, so that would solve part of the problem. Dealing with the downpipe arrangements would be another issue and I don't know if my idea is possible with Roman, etc. tiles.