Selling privately

[ixy]

Can anyone guide me through the procedure when selling privately please?  We have our house advertised through an agent but also got several private ad's on the web too and the latter is proving more successful.    I am aware that the buyer pays for the notaire (and agent - if they manage to sell it), but what does the seller need to do?   I am aware of the diagnostic checks required etc (not done yet because they expire quickly), but what other legal aspects do we need to do?   Do we need our own notaire?  Thanks for help in advance.

[La Guerriere]

Try the notaire you bought through. It's the easiest and he's proabbly still got it all in a file somewhere.

[frexpt]

[quote user="ixy"]Can anyone guide me through the procedure when selling privately please?  We have our house advertised through an agent but also got several private ad's on the web too and the latter is proving more successful.    I am aware that the buyer pays for the notaire (and agent - if they manage to sell it), but what does the seller need to do?   I am aware of the diagnostic checks required etc (not done yet because they expire quickly), but what other legal aspects do we need to do?   Do we need our own notaire?  Thanks for help in advance.
[/quote]

We have exactly the same question, as we are expecting an offer from potential purchasers via our FPN listing and it occurs to me that a compromis will need to be drawn up.  As our previous experience of transactions in France has been via an agent, who (edit) normally draws up this initial agreement, who does so for a private sale?  I am wondering whether we just need to agree on a notaire (or notaires) and let him (them) get on with it? 

[Quillan]

As its a legal document I would strongly suggest you contact the notaire you wish to use and let him/her deal with it.

[frexpt]

[quote user="Quillan"]As its a legal document I would strongly suggest you contact the notaire you wish to use and let him/her deal with it.[/quote]

Thanks.  That is my inclination exactly.  I was wondering whether someone out there had actually been down this route and could confirm the thought.

[Panda]

Hello

Yes I've sold privately in the past and had the notaire draw up the compromis and deal with all other transactions, they can also engage the various surveys should you wish them to, I'm sure they get a commission on it but I didnt find it overly expensive when compared to other quotes and it's all under the notaires control which keeps everything simple (IMO).

P

[frexpt]

[quote user="Panda"]

Hello

Yes I've sold privately in the past and had the notaire draw up the compromis and deal with all other transactions, they can also engage the various surveys should you wish them to, I'm sure they get a commission on it but I didnt find it overly expensive when compared to other quotes and it's all under the notaires control which keeps everything simple (IMO).

P

[/quote]

 

That's excellent!  Thank you very much indeed.

[ixy]

Just a little bump for this one but adding a different question.

Reading other forums I see there have been some nightmares re the house transfer funds.   I know you must make it very clear to the notaire that you require the money on the day of the final Acte signing.  Our notaire has said she can easily transfer the funds using electronic procedure as long as all our IBAN details are quite clear.   It seems others have done this yet they've still had worry and sleepless nights due to the delay of the money hitting their UK account.     So, your opinions please on THE best way for a hassle-free transfer. Is it :

1.  Let the notaire transfer to our UK bank account.  (Worried about no control of exchange rates).

2. Let the notaire transfer to HIFX, FirstRateFX (or the like) and have them transfer to UK account.

3. Let the notaire transfer to CA bank account and then do the exchange ourselves (with the best deal of the day).

4  Another?

[bubbles]

From what I've read elsewhere, I think number 3 should be a No, no!!

We are in the process of selling and are about to look into the 2nd option.

Hey, I bet the euro weakens before the acte de vente! It's looking very strong for us right now and would make quite a bit of difference to what we actually receive.

[ixy]

It certainly does make a huge difference Bubbles, I'd read in another thread that you were keeping everything crossed at the moment, good luck to you.   Hopefully it will happen for us soon too.   Its a fact its more of a 'mare to cross back over than it was to come!  We're still hanging on re the diagnostic check too,  the notaire did say she'd require it at the compromis de vente signing but unless we're sure we've got a buyer we're not organising it. Buyers are too far and few between!

[NormanH]

[quote user="ixy"]Just a little bump for this one but adding a different question.

Reading other forums I see there have been some nightmares re the house transfer funds.   I know you must make it very clear to the notaire that you require the money on the day of the final Acte signing.  Our notaire has said she can easily transfer the funds using electronic procedure as long as all our IBAN details are quite clear.   It seems others have done this yet they've still had worry and sleepless nights due to the delay of the money hitting their UK account.     So, your opinions please on THE best way for a hassle-free transfer. Is it :

1.  Let the notaire transfer to our UK bank account.  (Worried about no control of exchange rates).

2. Let the notaire transfer to HIFX, FirstRateFX (or the like) and have them transfer to UK account.

3. Let the notaire transfer to CA bank account and then do the exchange ourselves (with the best deal of the day).

4  Another?

[/quote]

I have never known this to happen.

It is often 3 months later

[bubbles]

Ixy, we didn't have the diagnostic checks done until today! We were told they are only valid for 3 months and it was best to wait for a buyer first.

Received and accepted our offer yesterday - sent them a fax to that effect.

Agent organised the checks today.

Got email timed one minute to 7pm saying that the compromis is now signed and on its way to us here in England.

So it can all be done very quickly it seems.

Still got everything crossed mind you.

[Pommier]

We've sold houses quite a few times in France, and the only option I would accept is to tell the notaire you must have a cheque at the signing.

Just once we weren't there for the Acte de Vente and had a right game getting the notaire to send us the money.

[Will]

Norman, when we have sold in France the funds were received by the next day, and in all of Judie's eight years as an agent immobilier I don't think she experienced undue delays in any of the sales she handled. I agree that you need to make it clear that you need the funds promptly though.

The only reason for delays (other than notaires' tardiness or incompetence) would be if there is a question over something like capital gains tax, or there are complications (e.g overdue payments) with a mortgage. Even so, the notaire should be able to calculate the sum payable to you and transfer that amount promptly, even if a bit has to be retained to cover possible extra tax or payments due. Over a certain amount, if French capital gains tax is payable, an 'expert' is normally used to establish the liability (at your cost) so this should be quickly and easily calculated.

As far as the options are concerned, then a cheque at the signing or transfer to a French bank account is by far the most usual and thus the least likely to incur delays. I accept that CA gets a rather bad press on these forums, but equally some currency exchange companies are notorious for hanging on to the money for rather longer than they should, and not all are regulated and their clients protected (see here for a recent news story).

[Hereford]

We have just used HiFX to send some money to France and they make it clear that the money (to them) must come from an account in your name, and not a third party,  so presumably they do not accept money from a Notaire.

[ixy]

Thanks so much for all your replies.   Great news to hear you are nearly there Bubbles!  We'd definitely decided to wait until we had a buyer before arranging the diagnostic checks, I can't understand the part about it lasting only 3 months though because everything I've read the minimum life of the checks can differ but the least is 6 months?  Does anyone know if it works better if you open a euro account, secondary to your main account in the UK.  Would that work better?   

Will - I have read that there are lots of companies registered but not regulated by the FSA.  In fact only 3 are it seems which are Caxton, HIFX and World First.   You have no guarantees with the others.    Frightening that the law won't be changed until Nov '11   

     

[bubbles]

Have I missed a bit about the law changing on 11th November?

Please dont be cross with me anyone.

I probably wasnt paying attention.

Sleep deprivation is taking its toll as we look after our 3 small grandchildren this week.

[Pickles]

[quote user="bubbles"]Have I missed a bit about the law changing on 11th November?

Please dont be cross with me anyone.

I probably wasnt paying attention.

Sleep deprivation is taking its toll as we look after our 3 small grandchildren this week.[/quote]

Sleep deprivation is definitely affecting you. I think what is being said is that laws will take effect as of November 2011 which will require registration and regulation of FX companies.

Regards

Pickles

[Will]

The current situation regarding regulation of foreign exchange companies is rather a mess - being 'registered' with the FSA counts for little, and the current FSA regulation of such companies that are 'regulated' is, frankly, not thought to offer particularly effective safeguards. Totally different rules apply to currency exchange specialists from those that apply to money transfer companies. The companies themselves believe that the forex companies' banking arrangements count for rather more than FSA regulation/registration, and you can see their point. Many have very close links with major banks and financial institutions, so funds are at least partially safeguarded that way, and nearly all are respected, professional institutions that are unlikely to fail - though there is always a risk of course.

Crown Currency Exchange, the company that recently failed, was an exception. It operated in a rather different way from most foreign exchange companies, offering over-attractive rates well in advance, and had no arrangements for 'ring fencing' clients' money, unlike the majority of such companies. Many of the reputable companies saw the crash coming, and warned FSA and HMRC, but they could do nothing.

It will be interesting to see what changes the November 2011 rules bring and how it all works out in practice.

[ixy]

[url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article6869218.ece] HERE IS THE LINK [/url]

to the information I read.  I've also noted it states "including" (not just the 3 as I stated before). 

[nectarine]

back to the original enquiry. We sold privately and went to the notaire with whom we'd bought the house 12 years previously. He did the compromis, recommended a diagnostics company, was extremely helpful and gave us a cheque at the Acte De Vente.

[ixy]

Please don't answer if you don't wish to nectarine.  You then banked the cheque in France and had no hassle transferring to UK? 

[pachapapa]

Legal transfer of funds is part and parcel of the EU fredom of movement of this that and the other.