French gang bang!!

[woolybanana]

The French press is full of reports of a woman being raped by several policeman after an evening at the Quai des Orfevres. Some of them have admitted the offence, others not yet. However, it does seem that the French phrase for gang bang is "Viol en reunion" which seems so very appropriate somehow.

What if the reuunion had been a mucical one, would that have been violin en reunion? And if it had not been a reunion ( translates as meeting as well) but a gathering? Then, what type of meeting qualifies - if it was at boardroom level would the lady be a bawd automatically? And if at a football match ..........

The possibilities for this unfortunate phrase are endless.

[Quillan]

Was this the one you were thinking about Wooly

Deux policiers mis en examen pour viol au Quai des Orfèvres

[woolybanana]

That's it Q. There is a general state of shock as these police are supposed to be the elite force. There is even a TV series based on their service.

If two have confessed, them more might, but whether they can get the poor Canadian victim to return to France to testify is another matter.

[Quillan]

It looks like the one 'token' officer is locked up (for his own safety) but the rest are free. Interesting when you compare France to the UK on these matters. The French seem openly more corrupt in their policing than the UK police force could ever dream of being and get away with it (to a degree). Could you imaging the French dealing with the likes of Stephen Lawrence, Tory MP's on bikes or Hillsborough, well they wouldn't would they. Open and closed case, bish, bash, bosh job done and thats the end of it regardless of what extra evidence come to light later. The UK police look very 'straight' in comparison.

[idun]

Would this have been in the papers if the victim had been french? I actually doubt it my self.

[NormanH]

There is a French joke in dubious taste about a woman going to complain about being raped by 4 men from the Mairie.

When she was asked how she knew they were from the Mairie she said 'because I had to do all the work myself'.

[nectarine]

an extremely worrying case ... and I wonder to whom she was able to complain. I mean, normally you'd complain to the police but they seem to be the culprits in this case.

PS: good joke, Norman .. !

[idun]

Hopefully she went straight to the Canadian Embassy and got them to deal with the french authorities, because who else could she go to?

Would I trust the gendarmes or police in France, no actually I would not. My limited experience with them is that there is not only a culture of mysogyny but in general they are useless, unhelpful and lazy, maybe because I am female. But that is, as I said, my limited experience. Would they jump to it, if I was male, maybe they would have a little more interest but I wouldn't like to stake anyone's life on it.

[ernie]

If you know someone who has been raped, it probably wouldn't come over quite so funny.

[Quillan]

I take it you're aiming you comment at Norman because I can assure you that neither I or any other posters in this thread think its funny.

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"]I take it you're aiming you comment at Norman because I can assure you that neither I or any other posters in this thread think its funny.[/quote]

I think you will find that ernie's comment is aimed mainly at the original posting by WB who obviously did think it was amusing.

[woolybanana]

Sorry, Nick, reread my lips; I didnt think it was funny but found the French term rather inappropriate in literal translation and even a tad inaccurate.

[NickP]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Sorry, Nick, reread my lips; I didnt think it was funny but found the French term rather inappropriate in literal translation and even a tad inaccurate.[/quote]

Fortunately for me I don't have to read your lips, I read what I see; and from my angle you were after a cheap laugh. [:(]

[woolybanana]

Silly!

[ernie]

Quillan - Both.  The phrase “gang-bang” is also utterly offensive AFAIAC.  It troubles me that an (alleged) case of multiple rape – by several policemen, what’s more - can be seen as an opportunity for humour.  It’s unlikely any women readers would joke about it, especially if they have been through the dreadful trauma of rape.

[Pommier]

I agree. I find the use of the words 'gang bang' offensive and maybe a bit childish.

[idun]

I actually find viol en reunion exceedingly offensive, it banalises what has happened, as far as I am concerned. Gang bang sounds horrific, which it is, and a better description of an horrific act which does not banalise it.

IF I had thought that wooly was taking this in any way, other than very seriously, I would have said something, most certainly taking him to task.

[woolybanana]

Would you have spanked me?

[Quillan]

[quote user="idun"]I actually find viol en reunion exceedingly offensive, it banalises what has happened, as far as I am concerned. [/quote]

Personally I felt that was the point he was trying to get over to people. To be honest if I thought otherwise I would have put my Mods hat on and either pulled or edited the post. I am absolutly sure in my own mind that Wooly is not the sort of person to deliberatly make fun of such a horrible event.

[NickP]

You must be joking he is the smutty innuendo king of this and any other forum. You only put your mods hat on when it suits you or your agenda, still if you want to support someone who thinks it's funny to trivialise rape that's your choice.

[idun]

NickP, it really does not feel to me, like anything was trivialised, other than by the french press, and I reiterate, I DO NOT BELIEVE that if the woman had been french, her ordeal would have even got column space.

Unfortunately I have seen the gendarmes in action in cases of domestic violence and their disinterest is honteux. And not only these 'fine' officers of the loi.......  if it gets that far, the courts have then acted in a disgraceful manner, probably following the letter of french law! Droit de l'homme? no mention of women is there!

Any mockery from wooly, was, as far as I was concerned, was strictly about the french press, whose use of the term viol en reunion sounds unimportant and trivial.

[Pommier]

If you look at the definitions on Wikipedia, gang bang suggests consent, whilst this attack should more accurately be described as gang rape (but of course that doesn't sound so 'jokey')

[woolybanana]

Actually, I was trying to shock somewhat, to point out as Idun has done, the apparent triviality of the French term and its inappropriateness to what seems to have happened in the case in question.

Which begs questions about the attitude to the rape of women ( and, the great unspoken, of men too) in this country and many others.

And to the use of language as a reflection of societal attitudes. But that is another debate.

Yes, Pat, as a former journo and teacher, I know how to get reactions; would that people had seen clearly what I was getting at. This may reflect my love of the tortured route rather than the straight and simple path.

edit

Yes, I have checked a diozn or so disctionaries and the phrase gang bang seems now to have a second sense which does not exclude consent whereas for me it is always a rather vicious term for multiple rape. Much more explicit than the French term.

[EuroTrash]

I actually think all this has lost the plot.

It's impossible for a non-native speaker to discover a new French term and instantly know what connotations that term carries for a native French speaker. All we're doing is taking the words at face value, There are plenty of English terms that if taken at face value would completely lose all the emotional charge that they automatically spark off when an English person hears them. Why is 'gang rape' a more appropriate term than 'viol en réunion'? Simply, because we know what it implies. Just as the French know what 'viol en réunion' implies.

A French person might think that 'driving with excess alcohol' sounds less culpable than 'drunk driving' but an English person knows that the meaning is identical.

Words, words, words

[YCCMB]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Yes, I have checked a diozn or so disctionaries and the phrase gang bang seems now to have a second sense which does not exclude consent whereas for me it is always a rather vicious term for multiple rape. Much more explicit than the French term.[/quote]

Leading me to put into print something I've been thinking for quite a while, and which, given the turn this thread has taken, I feel (as a female) quite entitled to make. Dictionaries, words...does it matter? Well, in a way yes, it does. Because, as Wooly has just illustrated, there's a nuance in some of the terms, real OR perceived, which can imply, or (to use Wooly's words) "not exclude" consent. Male domination in the dictionary industry, perhaps. Or simply the inability, in any language, to really convey the repugnance of such an act.