Jonzjob Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 It looks as if we may well be getting into the realms of a nasty neighbour? He moved in a few months ago and carries a reputation of problems with him. 4 moves because of neighbour problems! Obviously, he has had some awful neighbours [Www][blink]I am going to have to get an accurate cadastral plan for our property and have found a few sites on the web that appear to provide them, but they also appear to be private 'companies' and not part of the mairie? Has anyone had to get any of their cadastral plans and if so how did you do it please?Will we have to employ a geometre to mark everything out?Edit : - Forgot to ask. Any ideas as to approximately how much a geametre costs??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I went to my mayors office and they have them, simply ask for a photocopy. If he is diputing the border with you then he needs to prove the border not you, speak to your mayor. We had a geometre out and it was just over €500.If you have a Tablet then use the 14 day trial of Sity Trail. It has Cadastra maps so using the built in GPS you can walk round the garden and find the border. I was supprised how accurate it was.http://www.sitytrail.com/lang-en/Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 http://www.cadastre.gouv.fr/scpc/rechercherPlan.dogives the offical version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Nothing for me on that Link Norman. All I get is "Nous n'avons trouvé aucun résultat correspondant à votre recherche."The visit to the maire was not much better. He just said that if the problem was with the land then a Geometré was needed and if it was agrovation then the gendarmes.As the clown has now decided to dig across the access to our neighbour behind and stuffed a 2" pipe from his pool into out fossé, so the geometre is going to be needed. There is a good chance that when he does strat pumping water out it's going to errode the other side of our fossé? So it needs to be sorted a soon as we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 If the mairie can't recommend a geometre (they might have a list), then the phone book will yield up some, I am certain.Have no bornes ever been placed in and around this land; I am surprised they were not when the place was sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 [quote user="Jonzjob"]Nothing for me on that Link Norman. All I get is "Nous n'avons trouvé aucun résultat correspondant à votre recherche."[/quote]There must be a problem with the details you are entering then.I have used that site a lot when looking for houses and wanting to see who owns what.It can be very fussy about exact names and having the right number for the départment etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 [quote user="NormanH"]There must be a problem with the details you are entering then.[/quote]Where we lived before - in the next commune - I could never find any reference to our address using that site. Our previous house was built in 1995 but it still did not appear on the site under any guise. Our present house is there in its full glory and was built in 2003. And there is the answer, the up-to-dateness of the site is purely down to the information they are given. Our previous commune is notorious for being completely behind the times as regards the cadastral plan; it is an unmitigated disaster.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 There were no borns as such anywhere on the property nor were any put there during the cadastre update a couple of years back. But there are 2 steel fence posts that were put in when the house was built in 1982 and they mark the extent of our property.A good friend is a manager at the Consiel General and he is friends with a geometre. He has copied him with an e-mail to us with his details and the situation. So all we have to do is to cobble an e-mail to send to him with some photos and see what he's going to do and charge. The charge isn't too importaint, as long as it doesn't need a mortgage and just as long as we can get this mare's nest sorted.Why do clowns like this exist? It's his 4th move due to neighbour problems! Agressive with it too! His wife seems quite frightened of him.I hate bullies with a vengance!Edit : - A senior moment there? I had meant to put some photos of the stiuation. The 1st is looking over the fence post at the road end. The little white upright is the far fence post and the fossé runs under the trees.[URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/29/IMG_0055_zps1305194e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/29/IMG_0055_zps1305194e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]Looking from the far post to the road end. The fence post is at the end of the wall.[URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/29/IMG_0057_zpsed3ddc20.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/29/IMG_0057_zpsed3ddc20.jpg[/IMG][/URL]Lastly, where clown has dug across the access and the white pipe is pointing slightly upwards across our fossé[URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/29/IMG_0100_zpsab5d8121.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/29/IMG_0100_zpsab5d8121.jpg[/IMG][/URL]Nobody got a dead rat I could borrow I suppose [:-))] A sort of permanent loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 For starters if the lane is not part of his property then he had no right to lay a pipe across it.As I understand a geometre is only involved in simple property sales when there is some disagreement or an actual need to positively establish precise borders, other than that the cadastral records suffice but even the thickness of the line on a drawing can represent a meter of land which is more than enough for some to kick up a fuss about.The French are very funny about land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 As far as I know the actual lane is part of his property. The house at the end of the lane has had the right of access for the last 40 years, a long time before the present owners house was built. Why the house at the end does not own it ???Even if he has the right to dig across the lane he does NOT have my permission to dig into our land. At the moment I have not touched that pipe work, but??The geometre will have to decide just where the land ownership starts and stops. I have managed to get onto the official geometric site that Norman gave. The name of the avenue had a "de l' " that doesn't appear anywhere that we have ever seen in the last 10 years? Ta Norman [:D] That site shows position down to far less than a metre..Quite by accident I took the 1st 2 photos the Sunday morning before the clown dug across the 'lane'. The 3rd was the day after he had dug it in, the Wednesday after the 1st 2 photos!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Were there really no bornes put in place in 1982 when your house was built. Ours was built then and we most certainly had all the bornes indicating where our plot of land was, it was 'a selling point' really as we could see exactly what we were buying. Still it is what it is. RE the bornes read this carefully:http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F3037.xhtmland read this toohttp://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F2040.xhtmlI would go and see the Maire immediately and have a word with the Notaire you used when buying the property and if they are on your land, consider doing a porte plainte. In fact IF it looks like anything they do could damage your property, I do hope that you have legal cover with your house insurance, as I would be on to my insurance company immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 There are some very interesting things to look at there Idun, thank you. But it's a bit late and after a not too good night last night we will be having a very good look at them tomorrow. Thank you for the info.To be honest it was a case of what questions do you ask when you don't know what questions to ask? We had not heard of bornes when we bought the house and they weren't mentioned as far as we know, but that was 9 years or so back and French was not our strongest subject?We do have legal cover so that shouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 That's the trouble, we don't know what most french people 'just know'. And no matter how long I was in France, there were still things that came up that I had no idea about, so I'd still be learning and still am.Add to that all I have missed in the UK, and I have big black holes in my knowledge, it feels very odd sometimes.Good luck with rattling cages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Jonz, do you not have plot numbers on your "deeds" (titre)?Even without bornes, you should have plot number or numbers.Armed with plot numbers, you should be able to establish where your land begins and ends. The géometre, I would imagine, would ask to see your plot number/s and then all he does is literally set out the bornes to correspond with the plot numbers.Do get out all your paperwork and look for the numbers. Just for you to have some comparison, the house we have recently sold had 4 or 5 plot numbers that were exclusively ours and one plot number that was shared with the neighbours. Our present house has just the one number.I assure you that there should be numbers; otherwise how could they have transferred the house and property to your name at the time of purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 JJ, there is a margin for error with the geometre's measurements which some owners have taken advantage of to try and grasp a beneficial few centimetres of land, so it is essential that you are there when the measurement is done, if it is necessary. And do not therefore trust a survey carried out by a geometre appointed by the neighbour, it must be someone appointed by mutual agreement, or you (!)The ownership of the ditch could just fall within the margin of error, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 In our oppinion Wooly (??) there shouldn't be any problem with the boundry as the fence posts installed when the house was built are the markers that 'should' be the limit. But it's a case of getting it through the clown's thick, stupid skull??We are in the process of putting an e-mail together to the geametric recomended by our friend. That includes photos and the official mapping provided by Norman's link. The reason it didn't find it Norman was because the road is Avenue d'Occitanie and they have it as AV de l'Occitanie! I have never seen it written as that and it's as we know it on the road sign. I love the French sense of humour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Something we have noticed on the cadastre plan is the plan legend and it shows the fosse inside our property[URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/29/ScreenShot2014-07-08at132843_zps3e0b7fa0.png.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/29/ScreenShot2014-07-08at132843_zps3e0b7fa0.png[/IMG][/URL]The dotted line shows the fossé. We are the left hand property.Edit : - More agression to our neighbour, who is a widow living with her granddaughter. He saw me photographing the pipe he put in to show that it is already erroding the opposite bank of the fosse and accused her of getting me to do it. Tomorrow we will contact our insurance agent reference the legal cover we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Sorry to hear about your problems, Jonz. Similar to mine.Some years back I obtained a full set of cadastral plans from my local Impôt; the cadastral office (Bureau du Cadastre) tend to be located in the same place as they are both dealing with and under the Ministry of Finance.Using the online site earlier recommended (and recommended to myself on my earlier thread under "Legal" matters) one great benefit of that government site is the ability to carry out pretty precise measurements of land limits and buildings etc.Unfortunately, the only French legal solution is to demand your neighbour agrees to an independent Geometre Expert, who then sets the bornage and places the born markers.If he does not agree, then it is off to the local court who will then themselves, at their whole discretion, appoint a Geometre and his/her finding is absolute and final under law.Meanwhile, I would suggest you seek out a local Hussier (who is like a baliff but his/her findings are seriously important in French law) and request the Hussier visits the site, reviews the problems and prepares for you a "Constat d'Hussier", which is similar to a sworn affidavit, or deposition, yet with more force, credibility and recognition.As for the right of way, presumably under French law by custom and practice then you have probably established what is called a "Servitude": the legal right to use the right of way. It may well be (and should!) be engrossed into your title; check this with perhaps a notaire.That said, in my -admittedly small - knowledge of French law discharging water onto a neighbour's land is not allowed: more particularly so since it is causing/will cause damage. Again, a "voisinage" topic for the Hussier when they engross their constat. Take pictures; continue to take time and date stamped pictures until the problem is resolved.Jonz, after all this time, for you and your good lady this is a real pain in the butt! I know for my wife and I: after 11 years of peace and relative tranquility it is the last damned thing you or I need.Bon courage ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thank you for your detiled reply GS. We have been away for a few days to Andorra for my 21st birthday [Www][Www] well maybe a few more?One of the walking groupe in our village is a semi retired notaire and the groupe leader is a friend. The groupe leader is going to contact the notaire on our behalf, so we will wait a short while to see what happens. The French friend/neighbour who is also involved is also in the walking groupe and we tend to stick together!! The 'gentleman' next door admitted to the granddaughter next door that the fossé is indeed ours along with the trees, so I am now wondering how the situation with the pipe discharging his chlor swimming pool water onto our property will pan out?Just a quick note incase of confusion? The friend/neighbour's house is the next consecutive odd number to ours, 29 and 31 and her house is up a drive and behind us. She has servitude on that drive, it belongs to the trouble maker. His house is alongside ours, number 33. Any less confused? I'm not [:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Has anyone any idea where I can find the detail for emergency access to properties please? The reason is that the access to our neighbour at the back is a right of access via our troublesom neighbours property and we were told by the local gendarmes that it should be 4.5 metres wide and I am trying to get the definitive on it?The access at present is shown in my post at the top of the page and the curved dotted line on the right is a wall and that wall makes the access just 3 metres wide!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 A deafening silence on that one?We thought that we had a bad neighbour, BUT [:-))][:-))]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11047435/British-couple-walled-into-French-home-by-neighbours-from-hell.htmlNot that far from us either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Oh Jonz, do wake up!Norman has a whole thread on this one.................started a couple of days ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Hey J-JYou weren't the one that was actually walled in were you ? [6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Wake up Mint [8-)] Why? Has the weekend started without me [:-))]Not me Peirre, but if it were I then our neighbour would be in the new Carcassonne hospital having the bricks surgically removed before he could sit down!OK Mint, where is this original fred then [8-)] Link please [blink][blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 [quote user="Jonzjob"] where is this original fred then [8-)] Link please [blink][blink][/quote]If you click on "Active" it's the second thread down. You can use this to keep up to date every day[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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