Quillan Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I read today that a further three mosques have now been closed in Lagny-sur-Marne, Lyons and Gennevilliers (Hauts-de-Seine). With most of the Muslims in France feeling even more isolated I am not sure this is the right thing to do. Mosques are also social centres and can play a vital part in the fight against radicalisation. It smacks of cutting ones nose off to spite ones face. As a Parisian FN candidate said on the BBC last night "The Muslims have become the new Jews, we don't have a problems with Jews now just Muslims". It's like stepping back through time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 And stepping back in time, when do you last find the Jews killing hundreds of innocent people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote user="EuroTrash"]And stepping back in time, when do you last find the Jews killing hundreds of innocent people?[/quote] Try Googling Jewish Terrorism which should span a few hundred years and then in more modern times Palestine. That's not really what I meant though, it's more about Christians (FN) persecuting us but they (FN) have now 'turned' off us and onto the Muslims. There are some parallels between the Jews and the Muslims. If you look at Palestine for instance the majority of Jews did not agree with what Israel (which many Jews think as home) has done there and the actions of a minority group and indeed when representatives went to the UK to meet with the Jewish community there to put their side of the 'story' they were shown the door. That of course didn't not make headlines nor the TV news, just got a few lines here and there. You see the same with the Muslim community as well plus like orthodox Jews who wear distinctive clothing it makes them easy to spot which makes people believe there are loads of them about. It does not help matters further when both groups tend to live in particular geographic areas of a country, city and town which in most cases tend to be the poorer areas. So what I am trying to say is that targeting a whole group because of the actions of the minority is not right and watching what is happening in France with the FN etc. reminds me of how Jews have been treated in the past. Just as a point of interest there were 235,000 Jews living in France according to the 1933 census and in the 1950 census there as only 48,000. Most of the Jews in Eastern and Southern France were rounded up by the French and handed over to the Germans. The rest were rounded up by the Germans. I am not suggesting this could ever happen again nor that it could happen to the Muslims and I would like to think that Europe's past has taught us all that any discrimination and killing on any 'side' is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeJay Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Well put Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 My BF's husband, who is, in no particular order, French, Mahgrebin and Jewish, is well and truly knackered now, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]My BF's husband, who is, in no particular order, French, Mahgrebin and Jewish, is well and truly knackered now, then.[/quote] Well according to Le Penns niece you can't be French and Muslim although now it seems you can be French and Jewish so us Jews have become more acceptable, you can only be one or the other. If you have BBC News on your 'slate' last night there was a video of her at a rally saying this. The saddest part was there must have been a few thousand people (including young kids!) there and they all clapped and waved the French tricolour feverishly when she said it. Personally not only do I find these right wing groups disgusting but also terrifying and more frighteningly still they seem to have a lot of followers. We humans are so dumb, we never learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 The extreme right in the USA too is showing it's true colours. On Fox news last night, a female judge who like so many on Fox news seems to have over done the esthetic (oxymoron in this case) surgery was advocating that ALL americans get armed, NOW! IMO a very dangerous woman.Looney tunes are a playing and sadly it is not the comic strip but the ignorant and dangerous. Sick of it all. Maybe this is all happening because we stupid humans have decided to over populate the planet. IF we can kill natures germs and diseases these days, then we cannot apparently stop atrocities and war...... is it nature's culling device????? I do wonder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Quillan - maybe a thread drift, but you've got your figures wrong about the number of french Jews who survived WW2. Acc to Wiki (and other sources I've read)in 1939 there were about 330,000 Jews in France. About a quarter of those were refugees from other European countries.Of french born Jews, 75% survived the war, one of the highest rates in occupied countries. Most of those who died in the camps were those refugees.France has the 3rd highest number of awards for Righteous among the Gentiles compared with other occupied countries.It says a lot for the much maligned french people - many thousands of them sheltered Jewish families and just children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 There was no census in 1939. The figures you quote (from Wiki and" other sources") is only a guess and some put it higher because an estimate on the 1938 census (they are done in 5 year intervals apparently) was 350,000 but sadly as the census takes a few years to collate and that most of the information way taken by the Germans and/or destroyed there are no reliable figures for the 1938 census. The 1943 census never happened and 1947 one was postponed till 1950. Therefore the only known figures are from those dates. I can't save and paste the link for some reason but you can find the results on www.insee.fr . I got told off by other forum members for quoting Wiki [;-)]. According to the Museum of Jewish Heritage just over 4,000 men, women and mainly children were hidden according to information passed to them from Oeuvre de Secours aux Enfants (OSE). France nationals have received 3,853 Righteous among the Gentiles as of 1st Jan 2015, the third highest, as you point out, in the world, the first was issued in 1963. They are only given to people whose acts can be proven. Have a look for the Yad Vashem website. "In those times there was darkness everywhere. In heaven and on earth, all the gates of compassion seemed to have been closed. The killer killed and the Jews died and the outside world adopted an attitude either of complicity or of indifference. Only a few had the courage to care. These few men and women were vulnerable, afraid, helpless - what made them different from their fellow citizens?… Why were there so few?… Let us remember: What hurts the victim most is not the cruelty of the oppressor but the silence of the bystander…. Let us not forget, after all, there is always a moment when moral choice is made…. And so we must know these good people who helped Jews during the Holocaust. We must learn from them, and in gratitude and hope, we must remember them." - Elie Wiesel I am sure Elie would be more than happy for people to replace the word "Jew" with any persecuted group, remove "the Holocaust" and replace it with "war". However we are drifting quite a bit and away from the main point I was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote user="idun"]Maybe this is all happening because we stupid humans have decided to over populate the planet. IF we can kill natures germs and diseases these days, then we cannot apparently stop atrocities and war...... is it nature's culling device????? I do wonder![/quote] I seem to remember from my studies some 40 odd years ago that theory came as part of the "Malthus–Ricardo debate". Malthus was some English bloke who wrote a book about the principle of population. "The American people are free..... to do exactly what they are told" - Ward Churchill (Native American writer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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