Foreign names

[idun]

Just been watching french news and there was an article about unemployment, especially the young and they said that young people with non french names often found it difficult to find employment, even if very well qualified. Several were interviewed.

The other problem in France with the cites, is having the wrong address too..........how difficult it is to have the wrong address and wrong name, I can only hazard a guess, but I imagine horrific.

In the past people moving to England or the USA anglicised their names, or had it done for them. I imagine that this could have happened in France too, say an italian name, frenchified a little, perhaps. Did this happen? anyone know? And is there anything wrong with that?

And what value one's 'heritage' when living in quite a different country and culture?

I ask, as strangely a good friend of my son called earlier today and I had a chat to him. His Dad is from North Africa, his mother english and they gave him two forenames, an arabic name and english name. His surname his sort of neutral to be honest. This young man is always known by his his arabic name, but as he has just about finished his studies, is wondering whether he should start being known by his 'english' name. He worries that employers will be less likely to employ him because of his name. He also worries about upsetting his Dad.

Personally I do not understand multiculturalism, and I do not understand racism either, not these days, as I do not care what colour anyone's skin is or their facial appearance.

[YCCMB]

Idun, one of my ex-students, a lovely girl whom I taught in college and later privately, came to work in the UK from France for exactly th reasons you mention. She was of Moroccan origin but born and raised in France, and told me quite clearly that her name had been the biggest obstacle to her getting a job in France. In fact, she said that on several occasions she'd phoned about a vacancy and all had gone well up until they'd asked her to leave her name, at which point the vacancy was suddenly and mysteriously no longer available.....

[NormanH]

Don't forget that French CVs ask for a photo too, which is another way of selecting people ...

[lindal1000]

My mother used to work with an Indian Accountant many years ago, before people were used to hearing Indian names. He was advised to change his name to an English sounding one and at everyone's suggestion he changed it to John Thomas!

Can you change your name in France? Given that you have to produce endless copies of your birth certificate for every event I don't know whether it would possible. We had some friends who discovered that their son's name had been mis-spelled on his birth certificate and they hadn't noticed until it was too late. Last I heard they will still fighting to get it changed.

I don't know how I feel about changing names. It seems a shame that it is necessary. I know a lot of Jewish people did it during WW2.

[YCCMB]

There's a certain irony to this. In the UK, it tends only to be the scammers, ambulance chasers and so on..the "Microsoft: your computer has a virus" ones in particular, who ring you from the Indian sub-continent. In France, I understand it's more general with offshore call centres in West Africa.. But in general, it seems if you're going to have to change your name to disguise your ethnic origins, it's practically a job requirement in overseas call centres.

[Judith]

"But in general, it seems if you're going to have to change your name to

disguise your ethic origins, it's practically a job requirement in

overseas call centres."

...

But what is the point when you can tell their origins from their voice?

[lindal1000]

Not always..they get special training in regional accents. "Mockney " is the usual..or some vaguely northern accent.

[dave21478]

When I was doing the restaurant one of the chefs went by a very Italian sounding name but admitted that his real name was Mohammed. His dark skin could pass for well tanned and he oiled his hair back in a typical "greasy Italian" style and had learned enough of the lingo to pass himself off to the French as being of Italian origin.

He had to do this as nobody would employ him otherwise, either due to the employer not wanting him, or the emplyer being indifferent themselves but knowing that their clients dont want their food cooked by a dirty Arab.

This was a few years back too, so I assume things have only got worse since the recent unpleasantness.

[lindal1000]

I remember last time I was in London I went into a very post 'English' butchers. The staff were dressed in traditional butchers aprons and hats and wore name badges. They were all good old fashioned British names (John Smith, Frederick Jones, Paul Slater etc,). They were frighteningly efficient and all had Eastern European accents!

[YCCMB]

I think the overseas call centre thing is twofold. In France, as I understand it, people are reluctant to call an offshore call centre because they believe it'll cost them more, even though the number is a fixed rate one. It's believed that if Jean-Pierre calls, he must be in France and not Côte d'Ivoire. In the UK, scammers believe you're more likely to be sucked in if you think you're talking to "John Smith", but they haven't really though it through any further. Like 419 scams where they believe you'll be completely fooled despite their appalling written English.

[mint]

What about Anton du Beke, the professional dancer of Strictly fame?

I can't remember what his real name is but I think it is Tony something or other.

Still, I have no problems with people changing their names for job reasons; after all, if you need to earn a living, you have to do whatever it takes?

[cajal]

Still, I have no problems with people changing their names for job reasons;

HRH QE2's father was born HRH KGV1- 'member of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha'.

On July 17, 1917, HRH QE2's grandfather, HRH KGV,

announced that he and his family would now become known as 'members of the House of Windsor'.

In 1960 HRH QE2 and her husband announced that their direct descendants would remain part of the 'House of Windsor' but they would carry the surname of Mountbatten-Windsor.

Tch! The lengths some families will go to for sake of their jobs?

[Judith]

Cajal, your prejudices are showing! -;)

And your detail is wrong - if King/ Queen NOT HRH but HM.

Simple, really.

As for names - I have kept my maiden name all through my second marriage - I see no reason to change it at all, especially after the fight I had to get it back after I divorced my first husband. 

[cajal]

Cajal, your

prejudices are showing! -;)

“Oer

missus” as the late Frankie Howard might have said.

No issues here with Betty and Phil or their direct

family....it’s the hangers-on that that

I have a prejudist against.

And your

detail is wrong - if King/ Queen NOT HRH but HM.

Mon

dieu..such

treason!! Only one thing for it. I’m straight off to the Tower,

won’t pass Go and won’t collect $200.

Although

I will add, in my defence, that any nation that indulges itself in

such hearaldry is inevitably going to create confusion and misunderstanding as to the

correct terminology to

the likes of lesser mortals as

me.

As for names -

I have kept my maiden name all through my second marriage - I see no

reason to change it at all, especially after the fight I had to get

it back after I divorced my first husband. 

When my first wife

and I divorced she quickly and seamlessly reverted to and still

retains her maiden name. Mind you, she is a barrister and was involved in the formulation and publishing of the original DIY

divorce procedure in the UK back in the 1970’s.  So you can see I was on a hiding to nothing there.

regards

cajal