leonard Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I am planning moving/buying a house in France. Can someone tell me, I am not retired, how long I can stay without work or what level of income I need to show I have sufficient funds to live independently. Also what papers I need to get. I also understand you can stay without looking for work for I think 90 days at one time what is the maximum number of days you can stay in one year without working, for example can you stay 90 days return to England for say 30 days and return for another 90 days?? Quite a lot of questions but have to start somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Are you a British citizen?I have never even considered the question of how many days I can stay in France! I assume (come on TeamedUp and SD) that as long as I make no claims on the French state other than 'reciprocal' health care and earn no money, that is my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 LeonardI have been here without working for 16 months - we only had to prove that we had savings when we registered with CPAM for healthcare, and a bank statement sufficed. Other than that, as a European, one is able to stay for as long as one pleases. Whether you can afford to or not, is another question.....I start looking for work when I recover from my hangover in January!Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Warren,Was/Is there a minimum level of savings required to be proven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I am pretty sure that if you are a EU citizen you have the right to stay as long as you want. If or when you do move here, regardless of whether you work in France or not or are living off savings you are required by law to complete a French tax return. You will also need to join the French health system at some point and if you are below compulsory retirement age, it is likely that you will have to contribute something to this. There are exceptions, but this is why the relevant bodies will want to see evidence as to what your financial means are.I hope I have got that right, but hopefully Ron and Sunday Driver will correct me if I have got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 [quote user="powerdesal"]Warren,Was/Is there a minimum level of savings required to be proven?[/quote]I don't know - they asked for a bank statement from the start of the previous tax year (not the current one), which for us showed a much healthier financial status, as it was prior to our house purchase! That was over a year ago and have asked for nothing since, except tax returns and a contribution to CPAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Welcome to the forum, Leonard.Everything mentioned here is correct.If you are an EU citizen, then you have the right to settle in France or any other EU country. There are no barriers to doing so (you do not have to demonstrate a minimum level of income) and there are no complex border formalities - all you need to show is your passport. Once you've arrived, you're here. If you have sufficient resources to live here without working, then that's fine. There's no need to return to the UK for any period of time.As soon as you move here on a permanent basis, you are classed as French tax resident, therefore you must submit a tax declaration in the Spring following the date of your arrival. You are also required to register for state healthcare. If you are bringing your UK vehicle with you, then it must be imported and registered in France within a month of arrival.The forum provides most of the information you'll need, so use the search function to look for topics of interest, then if you've any specify questions you can post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 The point about CPAM wanting proof of savings is that, if you have no income, they need something on which to base the charges. (Broadly speaking!). Whilst you are free to live here, the French state is under no obligation to provide you with health care (although it rarely refuses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I heard today that the French are to re-introduce the requirement for a carte de sejour to be obtained for anyone wishing to move to and reside in France, now this may just be a rumour and illegal under EU law, but as the UK are seeking to limit the number of Eastern European EU citizens that can move to the UK, there must be a provision to do this. The other rumour was in a post on here, are the French to ban the registration of RHD cars in 2007? If they do, and it is impossible for a resident to register a RHD car even if they wanted to, will that not lead to just more French insurance companies insuring what are technically illegal cars?Sorry the last bit is off topic but it is sort of legal [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 [quote user="Ron Avery"]Sorry the last bit is off topic but it is sort of legal [:P][/quote]It's also rubbish as Sunday Driver will shortly advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 This is a myth which is current going around all the French forums. I suspect it has resulted from someone misinterpreting the rules for driving a RHD UK registered car in France.If you become resident here, you cannot drive your UK car here unless you import it and register it here. The insurance companies who were previously happy to provide unlimited cover for non-legal UK registered cars are now restricting cover to the legal timeframes allowed for registration.This doesn't mean that you can't register a RHD vehicle here - only that you can't drive it here (permanently).The car manufacturers who have invested millions in complying with EU Whole Vehicle Type Approval regulations will be glad to hear it's only a rumour....[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 [quote user="Sunday Driver"]This doesn't mean that you can't register a RHD vehicle here - only that you can't drive it here (permanently).[/quote]I assume you forgot to add "unless it is registered here" to the end of that sentence, SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Hi SD Thanks for the confirmation, it did seem a bit odd that it was mentioned in passing on here, then nothing more said, however, I can assure you that a certain company with a very short name and a cross in it, is still insuring UK reg cars without any mention of a date for registration, despite being specifically asked if there was a time linit for registration, be interesting if a limit comes into play if there is a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Well spotted, our little sausage....[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 [quote]If you are an EU citizen, then you have the right to settle in France or any other EU country. [/quote] [SundayDriver]Almost but not quite right. If you want to come and work here, that's fine. If you want to come and retire here (and you're over 65), that's fine too. However, there is another category (into which we fall) - retired/not working but under "retirement" age. There is an odd bit of EU law which applies to this small group (which may well include the OP) and we have no automatic right of abode (well, we do now and have done for a while since obtaining our Titres de Séjour), although almost certainly we could and would have "got away with it" had we chosen to ignore this bit of law*.One of the things required for our Titres de Séjour was to demonstrate that we have adequate means to support ourselves. It never did quite become clear what level of income/resources was necessary for this (not least because we were way above whatever the threshhold might be). However, as a rule of thumb, €12,000 p.a. (perhaps adjusted for inflation) might be relevant since I know that figure was applied to several immigrants from the chess community back in the mid 1990s.* I can't quote you chapter and verse but I did find a reference to it somewhere in these forums about a year or two ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 You are right in that there is a general requirement for "inactifs" to demonstrate a minimum level of income (currently equivalent to the standard French old age pension) in order to obtain a titre de sejour. However, as EU citizens are no longer required to hold a titre de sejour, then in practical terms, this mechanism for assessing income levels no longer exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 It doesn't only apply to 'inactifs'. When we all needed to apply for titre de sejour, we had to demonstrate that we were able to support ourselves, even those who are working (as with Mrs Will and myself).Bring back that requirement, I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 'Bring back that requirement, I say.' Here here Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I think we have been here before peeps [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonard Posted December 9, 2006 Author Share Posted December 9, 2006 Thanks very much to all who have replied, I do not know protocol but do I reply to everyone who has been so helpful. I have a bag of other questions, but will post some later. Again thanks so much, I did not realise I would get so much help so quickly: excellent. Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Protocol is you put your virtual credit card behind the virtual bar and we help ourselves. I'll have one of those drinks with an umbrella in it, ta......[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 [quote]You are right in that there is a general requirement for "inactifs" todemonstrate a minimum level of income (currently equivalent to thestandard French old age pension) in order to obtain a titre de sejour. However, as EU citizens are no longer required to hold a titre desejour, then in practical terms, this mechanism for assessing incomelevels no longer exists.[/quote]Again, almost but not quite true (although, as I said above, it is a slightly grey area, in the sense that you might well get away without following the rules). See, for example, the EU web site:http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/top_layer/index_15_en.htmwhich says [i]If we so choose, we can decide to study, work, or retire in another EU country.[/i]If you then delve further, you will find:[i]Are you an EU national wanting to stay or live in another EU country?You will have different options depending on how long you want to stayand whether you will be working, a family member of somebody who isworking, unemployed, a student, retired, etc.Clickon the following links to find out about your rights, what steps youhave to take, and the national rules in the county concerned. You are the worker (period of residence of more than 3 months but less than 1 year)You are the worker (period of residence of more than 1 year)You are the worker (extension of period of residence)You are the worker (permanent right of residence)You are a jobseekerYou are a member of the workers familyYou are a studentYou are retired and want to reside in another Member StateYou are self-employed professional or services provider or recipient of servicesYou belong to a different category[/i]http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/living/right-residence/index.htmlClick through to the "different category" (i.e. relevant to "inactive") and you find:[i] YOUR RIGHTSAs a citizen of the Union, you may enter a Member State with a valididentity card or passport and reside there for three months without anyformalities. As a citizen of the Union who does not enjoy a right of residenceunder any other provisions of Community law, you have a right ofresidence in any other Member State on condition that you havesufficient resources to avoid that you and the members of your familybecome a burden on the social assistance system of the host MemberState during your period of residence and you and the members of yourfamily are covered by sickness insurance in respect of all risks in thehost Member State. Resources are deemed sufficient when they are higher than the levelof resources below which the host Member State may grant socialassistance to its nationals or if this criterion cannot apply when theyare higher than the level of the minimum social security pension paidby the host Member State. In order to obtain a residence card you may only be required topresent a valid identity card or passport and provide proof that youcomply with the conditions of residence. The validity of the residencecard may be limited to five years on a renewable basis. However, thehost Member State may, when they deem it to be necessary, requirerevalidation of the card at the end of the first two years ofresidence. The residence card shall be issued and renewed free of charge or onpayment of an amount not exceeding that charged for the issue ofidentity cards to nationals. The right of residence is maintained for as long as you comply withthe above conditions. However, recourse to social assistance due to atemporary difficulty may not entail your automatic expulsion from thehost Member State. Subject to the above conditions and to any specific provisionsforeseen in the Treaty and in secondary legislation, you have the rightto equal treatment with nationals within the scope of the EC Treaty.[/i]http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/living/right-residence/different-category/index_en.htmlYou can find (as we did when we moved here) much the same on the French Government web sites which made it quite clear that a Titre de Séjour was "required." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Chessfou,Maybe I'm being a bit dense at the moment but my reading of your excellent info post is that my wife cannot spend the whole summer at our maison de vacance, the whole summer in our terms being approx 5 months. Is this a correct interpretation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Excellent and many thanks Chessfou. So when it feels wrong to me that scroungers ask questions on here, then I am not really wrong in feeling like that. If they can't afford to live in France then the french government hasn't got to or at least shouldn't be paying for their health care etc etc etc........... that is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 [quote]Maybe I'm being a bit dense at the moment but my reading of your excellent info post is that my wife cannot spend the whole summer at our maison de vacance, the whole summer in our terms being approx 5 months. Is this a correct interpretation ?[/quote]No idea what your circumstances are (except your reference to Sharjah which is currently a little bit outside the EU).You need to draw your own inferences and conclusions from the regulations (they are quite different for non-EU citizens). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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