€90 billion sunk by a submarine.

[cajal]

"As you sow, so you will reap"  Screw countries over by the withholding of supplies of vaccines (Aus) and vaccine slander (UK) and face the consequences.

Ha! The arrogant little Napoleonic pr*ck has just managed to spunk €90 billion earmarked for the country's coffers.

TV5

[Martin963]

A few years ago I'd have felt genuinely sorry for the French on this.

But with that little creep Macron in charge,   who has made every effort on every occasion to scupper Britain over the last few years,   I've had a couple of days of absolutely gloating over his misfortune.

Not just vaccines,   threatening our power supplies around the time of Brexit (twice),   making problems over the Irish border,   difficulties over satellites,   difficulties over financial equivalence,  etc etc. 

Then there's Barnier,   who lectured us on all things European and now has the hypocrisy to "bury" most of his EU beliefs now he's on the campaign trail.

So sorry,  serves them right.   Great to see them all whining.

But the bit that puzzles me is Biden in all this.   It was thought that it would be a case of EU=GOOD,  Britain=BAD after Brexit,   but that seems to have gone.   Another proof that he is indeed completely senile?

[Gardian]

Just setting aside any views that we may have over Macron ...........

Surely if it was a signed contract, then Australia was committed? You can’t just walk away from a deal.

On the other hand, this ‘contract’ was allegedly signed 5 years ago in 2016 and unless I’ve missed something, none of these submarines have been built yet, let alone delivered. Was it just a ‘memorandum of understanding’ (or something like that) and Australia has no contractural obligation?

Do please correct me on any of the above if I’m wide of the mark.

[chessfou2]

There has been a huge amount of work done - not a 5-minute job to re-design a sub. Naval has had (I read) 500 people working on this (not necessarily all of them for 5 years). The figure I have seen for compensation of broken contract is a surprisingly small €100M.

[cajal]

A concise appraisal of events from 2016 to date HERE

The Australians are now at the stage of entering a 12-month contractual obligation to  negotiate to determine whether the contract is salvageable.

The French are now at the stage of throwing their toys out of the pram and withdrawing the ambassadors from the US and Australia.

[cajal]

[quote user="Martin963"]

But the bit that puzzles me is Biden in

all this.   It was thought that it would be a case of EU=GOOD, 

Britain=BAD after Brexit,   but that seems to have gone.   Another proof

that he is indeed completely senile?[/quote]

I

suspect Biden will have been informed, between naps, that there is more

credence in building an anglo-saxon alliance over and above a

gaellic-euro one in the US's push to  combat the threat of the Chinese

economic thrust and shenanigans to the countries and islands in the

south China seas and Pacific. Also, the proposed 'auukus'

nuclear-powered weaponry is far less detectable in service than the

French outdated diesel/electric powered.

Additionally,

let's not forget that along with this latest fiasco France has a

history of losing defence contracts, as in the loss of contract to

supply fighter jets to Morocco and Switzerland, both awarded to Lockheed

in the US.

[anotherbanana]

Even trouble with the fighter planes they flogged to India; blo*dy things fly backwards.

[Ken]

It appears that the whole package isn't just one contract. There were several different contracts and even more to be signed up to as the project proceeded.

It would also appear the Aussies are implementing a clause that stipulated if there were exceptional problems with the project then the whole project could be cancelled.

As for 'faith' trust' 'allies' 'reliability' and confidence are concerned: Well, recent events well illustrate how seriously the French are to be relied on and trusted.!!! Hoist on your own 'whatsit' springs to mind!!

[anotherbanana]

So, in the interests of phasing out diesel the Australians have gone nuclear. Makes sense. Ah but they could have bought French nuclear subs except that they are not so good because of their fuelling requirements.

Could the French have been trusted as allies in the containment of China?

[Ken]

Could the French have been trusted as allies in the containment of China?

French security has always leaked like a sieve. So the answer is probably a resounding 'no'! DeGaul never forgave the allies for keeping him in the dark regarding the invasion. British security knew that the French love to boast and simply couldn't have kept their mouths shut.. They haven't changed in the slightest. The hypocrisy over this submarine thing is quite astounding. Do French politicians actually believe they are 'loyal and trusted allies'? If so they are the only ones who do.

[Gardian]

Rather than get too jingoistic over this, I’d prefer to take a more objective view.

In this, Cajal’s link is very revealing.

From what I can see, the French and the Australians are probably equally to blame in this charade.

The French for singularly failing to deliver the submarines that were ordered 5 years ago. According to the article, the first delivery isn’t expected until 2035 (!) and there’s obviously scope for further slippage. I don’t recall reading when the first delivery was supposed to take place, but it wouldn’t have been 20 years after ordering.

And then the Australians. A completely hopeless procurement process. Quite simply, they should have pulled the plug a couple of years ago, but they’ve almost certainly been ‘courting’ the USA all of that time. A new President enabled the deal. The UK’s involvement has been to act as an honest broker, although its hard for me to think of Johnson as being honest !

If the true were known, both sides are probably quite happy that this has all gone ‘down the tubes’ (sorry, couldn’t resist the pun). All the noise is just electioneering.

[alittlebitfrench]

Well said Martin963

What this whole episode has shown is how insignificant and EU is seen by the rest of the world.

Also Macron's aspirations of a European state are well and truly scuppered...excuse the pun LOL.

Frexit anyone ?

BTW...this would never have happend like this under Chric. Macron is clrearly seen as more of a threat than an allie.

[cajal]

There's a certain sweet irony to all this mess.  I believe Macron

won't lose too much sleep over the loss of this contract.  Although it

fell apart during his term of presidency, the initial discussions were

actually started back in 2010 and the first signs of any operational

hardware appearing were scheduled for the 2030s, long after he will be gone, so the continuing escalating costs will dwarf the €90 billion

during his watch. Therefore, any blame for failures within the 2016

contract can be foisted firmly upon the shoulders of previous

administrations.

However, what will irk and

severely dint his ego is the fact that whilst he possibly had the ears

of certain heads of state, who probably didn't want him to have their

ears, on the last day of the G7 conference held in June at St. Ives UK,

closeted away at another location screwing  together the nuts and bolts

to a soon-to-be announced future 'aukus' alliance were president Biden

and prime ministers Johnson and Morrison.  Not only would he not be

aware of or informed about the outcome of these discussions the fact is,

they actually took place right under his nose.  Humiliation of that

kind, on a world stage, will remain with him forever.

[Gardian]

Cajal .....

I’m sure that all that is true.

However, 99.9% of the French population won’t know any of that. They’ll simply know that Macron has kicked off about France being screwed by the Aussies, the US and the perfidious Anglais.

In truth, the saddest thing about all this, is that countries like Australia feel that they have to spend billions on submarines like these.

[Ken]

Can there be anything more infuriating than being praised whilst hurling insults and being petulant?

Johnson is being absolutely masterful in driving the French to even greater childish behaviour. "Ineradicable" Our good friends etc. Oh how Macron must hate him. Perfidious Albion, The French will never grasp the complexities of such behaviour.

[anotherbanana]

France takes over the Presidency of the EU for six months in January; this should see Macron hysterically screaming for an EU army with France at the head and excluding the British. As well as efforts to make the UK’ s post Brexit life much more difficult.

Perhaps the Swiss could buy his second rate submarines as they have ducked out of their contract to buy French warplanes!

[chessfou2]

I believe that there are only two French nationals who ever post on this site, but I am dumbfounded by the bellicosity of all the British expats who have decided to make their life here. Surely, if Johnson and the UK is so 'Great' wouldn't it be best to head back over there and thus eliminate your exchange-rate risk.

[Ken]

France has called off free trade talks with Australia, this despite it's the E.U. that does the talks!!!! Who's running the E.U.? No don't bother replying I think everyone knows. I just wonder what the other countries think about France calling the talks off!!

In addiction a French Minister has said "keeping ones word is a condition of trust"!! Yes; a French Minister actually said that!! I think his name is Pinocchio!!

What will Jupitor do next I wonder!!

[alittlebitfrench]

@ chessfou2

25 % of France wants to see the back of macron.

I live with four French nationals and in a family of about 30 French nationals.

Everyone wants to see the back of Macron.

Can we stay ?

[anotherbanana]

Sounds as if you live in a burrow, albf?

[Ken]

There may be only two French nationals here;. The point is that no one has championed the u.K. The criticism is for Macron and his Ministers. Not for praising the U.K. If you support Macron, no problem.

You sound like Macron: Condemning the U.K. without justification, just pique! As for the exchange rate, no problem.