Insight into costs of selling in France?

[Daft Doctor]

I'm a bit confused. My basic understanding is that unless a property is sold 'FAI' (frais agence inclusive), the agents fee is payable by the buyer on top of the sale price. Is that right? Does the seller then get the net price agreed?

Also, are there any notaires or other costs to the seller, e.g preparation of a compromis de vente, etc, or is that also all down to the buyer?

I'm sure the answers are already in some threads somewhere but some simple insight would be valuable. Thanks very much

[woolybanana]

The seller can decide a net price  (net vendeur - in his pocket) if so wished. But basically all fees should be paid by the buyer. The idea that the seller pays any of them is merely a convention but can be a useful bargaining tool.

[mint]

Generally,  the seller pays for the diagnostics, typically about  €600 for an average sort of 3-bedroom house.

If there are boundaries to be re-drawn, (for example the seller sells part of his land, retaining some for his own use) then he should pay the geometre's fees plus land registration.

If sold FAI, then part of the agreed purchase price (typically "only" 5% these days on account of the market downturn) is made up of agency fees.

On top of the purchase price, the buyer pays the notaire's fees, typically about 7% of that price.

If the property is sold privately then, of course, all of the agreed price will go to the seller.

The taxe foncière is usually apportioned between buyer and seller.  If the seller is the owner of the property on 1st January of the year of sale, he pays the taxe d'habitation for the whole year.

If I've left anything out, please do not hesitate to put me right.  I've been doing my homework on this for some 2 years now whilst I've been househunting, so I don't want to still get things wrong at this stage!

 

[Daft Doctor]

Thanks for the info. I would be the seller, so was interested to know how much of the agreed price would normally come the seller's way.

Who decides on the Notaire in an agency sale, and who draws up the compromis de vente, the agent?

[PaulT]

You can decide on the Notaire. Normally, the same Notaire is used by both seller and buyer but each can appoint their own with no increase in cost.

When we bought we appointed our own as he speaks excellent English and the sellers one spoke no English.

Paul

[andyh4]

One point that seems to have been overlooked is that if there are any taxes due - capital gains tax - or outstanding debts on the property, the notaire should deduct these before giving the remainder to the seller.

[P-D de Rouffignac]

Just to reply to the second part of your question re the 'compromis de vente' - this can be drawn up either by the agent or the Notaire. When I worked in a largish agency with four offices, it had its own legal department and we would normally prepare the 'compromis' and get it signed by the parties before (usually) the buyer returned home, as a way of speeeding things up.

The 'compromis' was then sent by registered post to the buyer's home address and he/she then had the seven-day cooling-off period during which to reflect, starting from the morning after the arrival of the (signed) 'compromis' by post. A Notaire would follow the same procedure, and in the cases where the agency had prepared the 'compromis' the Notaire took over at that point on, to do the usual searches etc and prepare the 'acte finale'.

Using either procedure, nothing is set in stone, and I have been at sessions to sign the 'acte finale' where amendments have been made to this final document, either to clarify points or correct mistakes (such as a misspelling or wrong date)) for example, with the consent obviously of all the parties.

P-D de R.

[Babbles]

Its a couple of years since we sold our second home, the biggest unplanned expense was the near 1% of selling price of the house for the CGT to be calculated by some pal of the Notaire we didn't know this before we agreed to the selling price and it was a BIG expense.

[bubbles]

Do you mean you had to pay this pal just to calculate whether you were meant to pay CGT?

And did then you have to pay the CGT itself as well?

[Babbles]

Hi , Yes just for calculating it and it has to be done by a specific person, I thought that the Notaire calculated it but its by someone who is like an accountant, I can't remember the exact title, and although we had a raft of what we thought were valid invoices from French reg artisans not all of them were permissible so increasing the CGT payable, the only plus side of it their decision is final and if they miss calculate it they have no come back. The key thing with it is that its on the selling price not any potential profit. What really miffed us that neither the agent selling or the Notaire told us about it prior to agreeing the price even though we had a discussion at length with the agent about additional costs, but at least we sold and are now really happy with our new home and area.

[P-D de Rouffignac]

Fiscal representatives appointed when a non-resident is selling a French property are rather more than 'pals of the notaire'. They are approved by the French fiscal authorities and Yes, they charge for their services. There is a wealth of information on the French property forums such as www.frenchentree.com  on the subject of CGT, when applicable, allowances and deductions, how to calculate, and when a fiscal representative is required - enough information to enable a vendor to calculate the costs of selling his/her property that is not their principal residence;

P-D de R.

[Sunday Driver]

Full details of the représentant accrédité system are also set out in this Bulletin Officiel:

Plus values immobilières.  Contribuables non domiciliées en France.  Nouveau régime de designation de représentant accrédité.  Cessions intervenues à compter du 1 Mars 2004

"Frais et taxes supportés par le vendeur (notamment, frais de représentation fiscale)" are deductable for the purpose of calculating the CGT liability:

Déclaration de plus-value sur les cessions d'immeubles ou de droits immobilières

 

 

[Babbles]

Well in our case it was a pal of the notaire, I have no problem paying for the process but the lack of understanding and communication and general tardiness from both the Notaire and the agent cost us close to an additional 15K, which we would have calculated on the offer price we thought was acceptable, which to us is a significant amount of money

[Sue Buckle]

We have just been advised by a notaire that there is an alternative to paying the fiscal representative. If you know a French person, who is currently also a French resident, you can ask them to stand as surety for you. The notaire will have to write to them and get proof of their fiscal status, a copy of their recent taxe d'habitation or taxe fonciere, and proof of identity, such as a photocopy of their passport or identity card. This will then be sent to the government, who has the final say on whether to accept this person as a guarantor. It is all just in case the notaire miscalculates the CGT owed, and the authorities have to come back at a later stage to ask you to pay a bit more.

We've asked some friends to do this for us, and they have said yes. It could save us 2000 euros, so is well worth trying. We don't yet know if it is going to work, though!

Sue

[Clarkkent]

 If you have owned your property for 15 or more years there will be no GCT liability and such an appointment  will not be necessary.