La Roche Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 First of all great sight . Sorry this had to be my first posting but i feel as though i need help before my wife goes mad . In brief, we have purchased a home in France and had a water check carried out on the well. This has shown high levels of nitrates and some Enterococcus in the water sample taken. This has been created from two sources - Old Fosse Septic situated near the Well (we plan to have this emptied and filled in) and from fertilization in the fields behind the house (water source). We Did Plan to keep animals on the land . We have paid all deposits and due to complete in July and move in full time and leave the UK . This is where i need you guys for help who is responsible for clearing this mess up , or should we walk away or get the vendor to fix first ? my poor wife is so worried as our house in the UK will also sell in June and we have 3 children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 You have several options. Either get your well cleaned (which may beproblematic if the water table is contaminated, of course) or getyourself connected to mains water. Your local mairie can help you withthe details of that.You may be able to dig another well further away from the source ofpollution. You may be able to get the water clean enough to use formost purposes and buy in bottled water for drinking and cooking.Most of these options are expensive.Discuss responsibility with your agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Hi La Roche and welcome to the forum.It depends on what you were told you were buying. Have you bought a home, a home with a well, a home with a well with drinkable water etc. etc.In other words has someone i e the vendor or the agent misrepresented what you were told you were buying.As Dick says talk to the agent in the first place as it's always much better to reach a negotiated settlement acceptable to all parties with a bit of give and take than any form of legal action.One slight bit of puzzlement about your posting; you say you have bought the house so how can you contemplate walking away unless you have that sort of cash to spare. [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Roche Posted May 24, 2007 Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 many thanks for the replys , Ok we have had the reports back and they are certain these problems are being caused by the old septic tank that we were informed when buying the house just needed to be cleaned out , we were also told that the well was fine and water drinkable . We left our deposit and signed powers over the the Marie so we did not have to keep flying back and forwards . Now 7 weeks down the line and us having had the septic tank checked it has been condemed and we need a whole new system at least 35 mtres from the well ( still looking for a quote ) We have also been told that the water will be fine within a few months once this work has been carried out . This house is a private sale with no agency , we brought direct from a french family who are great people and freinds of ours now . Just that i feel they really 100% thought the waters were fine .now with all this should i ask them to meet us 1/2 way or should they pick up the costs . I dont want to offend them as they are really great people and helped us with lots of issues over the past few months ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 [quote user="La Roche"] Just that i feel they really 100% thought the waters were fine .now with all this should i ask them to meet us 1/2 way or should they pick up the costs . I dont want to offend them as they are really great people and helped us with lots of issues over the past few months ... [/quote]I believe that you should meet the costs yourself if you really are concerned about the water that they are probably still drinking, and accept it as one of the inevitable future costs of an older French property.After all that isn't that what you would do if you bought a car from them and the clutch failed soon after?If the electrical inspection had highlighted areas that didn't meet the current normes I am sure that you wouldn't expect them to "pick up the costs".EdittedI am sure that given enough time the well water would indeed become potable once more after cleaning out the old septic tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Roche Posted May 24, 2007 Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 Hi JR Sorry probably never myself clear on this matter the house is within their family but has been vacant for the last 7 years so i am glad to report that no one has been drinking it thank god ... There is mains water in the house but the problem i had was they knew we needed the land for animals and we needed the well for that sole purpose , the reports say this water is not even good enough to water your flowers because the levels were so high . I am glad this is a problem that can be resolved but it was a case should we look at price again or get them to meet us on costs . I may have jumped the gun when i posted this thread today as i was not armed with the information we have now . The septic tank has to be replaced full stop as it does not comply with currents regs , which we were informed it did when we brought the house , so i only think its fair to say they should meet us half way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I agree with J.R and believe that you should meet the costs yourself especially as you know the people and I am sure they told you in good faith that the tank was working. I would think 90 % of old French houses' septic tanks don't conform to the new regulations. So whatever you would have bought, the septic tank would need replacing. It's not that expensive especially if space is not an issue (it should not cost more than £ 3000) and once you have the necessary soil samples and permission it is only a matter of a day or two to install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I don't know what sort of animals you're going to keep or how much land you have. However, I keep two ponies here and most of their drinking water needs can be met with water I capture in butts which are all around the house and outbuildings. If you're worried about your animals drinking the water then there are other ways to fulfill their needs whilst the well problem is being sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 [quote user="La Roche"] The septic tank has to be replaced full stop as it does not comply with currents regs , which we were informed it did when we brought the house , so i only think its fair to say they should meet us half way [/quote]You say you have bought the house but then you talk of a deposit and walking away so it is not surprising that we are all a tad confused on here.1 If you have only paid a deposit and you really want the house then talk to the notaire and the family concerned as it appears on the surface that you might have been wrongly informed about the state of both the fosse and the well. But might it also be a question of misunderstanding? Although my understanding of French is good I sometimes miss nuances especially when the past tense is involved ie the well water was usable *** years ago etc. 2 If you feel you ought to benefit from some help cost-wise towards the necessary rectifications from the family then talk to them about it. They might be agreeable but they might not. Only you and your wife can decide how much this particular property means to you and how much you are prepared to spend on it. Cooperlola's suggestion re water for the animals seems to me to be very sensible and practical.Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Also remember that in most parts of France mains water is much cheaper than in UK so you could perhaps use the mains water for the animals. Which we do. We also have a "fosse" similar to yours which empties into a well .It works ok but no doubt we will be chased up to put a new one in. Another point is that wells usually dry up during the summer anyway. Sue suggests discussing with the vendors which is good advice, but my bet is that they will say there's nothing wrong with the existing sysem, it's been there for donkey's years! Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicos Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 La RocheWe have just bought an old property with a new septic tank and the vendors proudly told us that they had replaced the old tank with a much bigger one. However they are just a family of two and we expect to have big family gatherings of 10-12 people. Can you imagine how much water that tank is going to have to handle at peak times???? I doubt it will cope, but will wait and see. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise that you can choose exactly what type of fosse you wish to install, and whether you wish to divert grey water into an alternative storage tank. If this house is the 'perfect one' for you otherwise, I'd take a deep breath in and quietly pay for it yourself. Good neighbours are essential and a bit of good will can't do any harm.My impression is that we waste /use a heck of a lot more water here in the Uk compared to France, so you would possibly need to have replaced it anyway with a larger one regardless of whether it complied with modern requirements???Our guy had some financial help with replacing his from the government ( or somewhere official!) but that could be because he was in his 70's.As far as the animals are concerned- is there a local farmer who would be prepared to let you graze your animals for a few months?? There is so much unused land in France, that you might be lucky and find someone who knows someone who knows someone.....maybe the Vendors could ask around for you???You are about to start a new life with your family....I hope you achieve the calmness that we in the UK can only dream of!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryl-et-elaine Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 [quote user="La Roche"] In brief, we have purchased a home in France and had a water check carried out on the well. This has shown high levels of nitrates and some Enterococcus in the water sample taken. This has been created from two sources - Old Fosse Septic situated near the Well (we plan to have this emptied and filled in) and from fertilization in the fields behind the house (water source).[/quote]Replacing the fosse and cleaning the well is unlikely to result in a 100% pure water supply being available. If you have high levels of nitrates showing now, this is likely to continue as long as there is active agriculture in the area. Even if the farming stopped completely, it may take many, many years before nitrate levels drop significantly. In many areas of France even the mains supply can contain higher levels of nitrates and pesticide traces than what one expect!I would suggest that once you've got your fosse replaced, and the well cleaned, consider fitting a filter system to the pump on the well. This should solve any problem with regard to water quality. In addition, the Mairie's office should have a notification regarding the quality of the mains water supply. This is often posted on the notice boards outside the office.Keep us all posted on your progress.Daryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 [quote user="Nicos"]We have just bought an old property with a new septic tank and the ventors proudly told us that they had replaced the old tank with a much bigger one. However they are just a family of two and we expect to have big family gatherings of 10-12 people. Can you imagine how much water that tank is going to have to handle at peak times???? I doubt it will cope, but will wait and see. [/quote]AFAIAK if it has been replaced recently then the fosse should conform to the norm and should be the correct size for the property ie the size is calculated depending on the number of bedrooms etc. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicos Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Yes- thanks for that! It's a 5000 litre fosse for a 5 bedroom house- do you think that would be enough with baths/showers/ washing machines/toilets?? I would have prefered to of had a larger one, but am I being paranoid?????[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Hi NicosThat's quite a sizeable tank and you are making it sound like the water is going to sit in there all the time until you empty it which of course it won't, it's the other 'stuff' which will remain, if the fosse is working correclty, showers, washing machine etc will go in and then out into the filter bed as far as I know. I'm no expert but I would say you were in a better positon than 80 to 90 % of France who have a non conforming small tank which runs into a ditch somewhere no doubt!Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 [quote user="Nicos"]Yes- thanks for that! It's a 5000 litre fosse for a 5 bedroom house- do you think that would be enough with baths/showers/ washing machines/toilets?? I would have prefered to of had a larger one, but am I being paranoid?????[:-))] [/quote]This site seems to suggest that you might have the right size for your house HERE. Lucky you.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicos Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 La Roche- sorry- didn't mean to pinch the thread. I too have loads to learn and the answers were very helpful![:)]How are you getting on La Roche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Roche Posted May 27, 2007 Author Share Posted May 27, 2007 [:)] not a problem nicos its a learning curve for us ... although we have been visting france for many years when it comes to buying a house and moving here full time it becomes a whole new ball game . I would like to thank everyone that posted replys and made me look at our problem at a diferent angle THANK YOU SO MUCH .As we now know what caused the problem its not the end of the world , we have a fix and in a few months have to re-test the water and the soil and all should end well ( excuse the pun ) ....i am sure i will be back with a lot more questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 If your house in is an area surrounded by farms then it is completely probable your water table is highly contaminated by a potent mixture of agrichemicals, including high nitrogenous fertilizers, sulphates, etc and various herbicides and insecticides dating back to the era where various chemicals used in France for agriculture have since been banned.One of the problems with Organo-Phosphorus based nasties is that they persist: i.e. they never degrade, organically and are there for ever.Even after installing your new fosse septique, I would be most careful what you do with your well water.Easy safe solution is to investigate what is called a Reverse Osmosis Filter: this filters water at a molecular level and thus removes all impurities. To achieve this properly, however, requires a proper system using a pressure pump, not a mains water pressure driven system as these are only partially effective.Worth remembering in Australia, for example, that many artesian wells are contaminated by natural salts (Chemicals compounds called Halides), and thus no use for agriculture without some form of purification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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