Portsmouth-Le Havre ferry - press release received

[Will]

Just received this statement, issued today.

"In connection with the Port authority of Le Havre, LD Lines is pleased to announce the opening of a new ferry service between Le Havre and Portsmouth starting October 3rd 2005.

The "Norman Spirit" is a recent ferry (1992 built) with a capacity of 1850 passengers and 120 trucks. She will operate a daily rotation between Le Havre and Portsmouth. The forecasted traffic on this line is approximately 600 000 passengers and 50 000 trucks. The vessel will be flying the Italian flag. Vessel's configuration perfectly matches  LD Lines' target markets requirements : accompanied truck and trailers, passengers, and private vehicles.

Thanks to the active support of Le Havre City Hall, Port Authority and Chamber of Commerce, LD Lines hopes to actively participate in the development of both Le Havre and Portsmouth business activities.

The opening of this service is a further step on the long road promoting maritime services as a safe, effective, reliable and natural transport mode for rolling cargos."

Apparently the ship will leave Portsmouth each evening and return from Le Havre the next day. The company says "LD Lines ferry service will offer a simple pricing structure with value for money and will often be cheaper than its competitors".

The ship is, reportedly, the former P&O ferry Pride of Aquitaine which has been laid up in Dunquerque since ceasing to operate between Dover and Calais.

BBC South news says that the service, which will be primarily for freight but will also take passengers, is not yet confirmed.

[BJSLIV]

I suppose it fits in with LD's existing Le Havre to Africa operation.

A single rotation per day has unfortunate overtones of the death throes schedule of the unlamented P&O Portsmouth/Cherbourg debacle. At least the ex Prins Filip is a decent size. Does anyone have any ideas as to how many cabins it has? Don't fancy sitting up all night!.

Interesting to see this

http://www.aferry.to/LD-Lines-ferry-ferries.htm

was captured by Google on 17 September, so news must have been around even  before the press release.

LD Lines Ferry service will run both a passenger and freight service between Portsmouth and Le Harve.

LD Lines ferry service will offer a simple pricing structure with value for money and will often be cheaper than its competitors.

Aboard the LD Lines ship there is no need to book a cabin. Customers can choose between one of the many comfortable reclining seats on board or take a rest in the privacy of their own cabin.

Whilst on board customers may wish to make use of one of the restaurants or catch up on some work in the business lounge which is equipped with wireless internet facilities.

Sailing Times

LD Lines Ferry will sail daily from Portsmouth in the evening and return from Le Harve the next day. The typical crossing time will be between 4 and 5 hours.

Will assuming that it leaves Portsmouth late at night , what time would you guess for the departure of the  return crossing  from Le Havre?

It is obviously expecting to go faster than the old Prides if the target crossing time is 4/5 hours.

EDIT

Have since found this

http://extrapah.havre-port.net/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PAH_WEB_2004/ACTUALITES_ANGLAISES/TRANSMANCHE%20-%20COMMUNIQU%C3%89%20DU%2019%20SEPTEMBRE%202005%20GB.PDF

Which says that this is the first stage, so perhaps we might get back to two boats. It also says that it will leave Le Havre at 5:00 returning at 7:30 ie Almost exactly the one half of the P&O schedule.

[la bezarderie]

Interesting news.  What does LD stand for? Not heard of them before.

[Joh]

Hi,

Got this from their website,     http://www.aferry.to/LD-Lines-ferry-ferries.htm

Louis Dreyfus Lines S.A.S. is a subsidiary of Louis Dreyfus Armateurs SAS. It is a Short-Sea Ro-Ro operator with head office based in Paris.

Obtained a quote from the booking page, prices seem to be about the same as P&O's.

Terry

[BJSLIV]

Where did you find their prices?

 

[Will]

I think it very unlikely that the ship has many cabins. My usual reference sources don't give any figures. It was originally built as Prins Filip for Belgian company RMT, and had a rather troubled entry into service as I recall it (not entirely the ship's fault). When RMT ceased operation, it was eventually taken over by Stena as a freight ferry on the Zeebrugge route, which suggests it probably had a limited number of driver cabins, but was extensively refitted (which may have meant removal of cabins) before being used on the Dover-Calais service, for which it was really too big.

That's probably why it doesn't do overnight crossings like P&O did on the route. It won't be anything like the two P&O ships, which were previously used on Olau's Sheerness-Vlissingen route and were very nice vessels, particularly before P&O got their hands on them.

The company's own site (www.ldlines.co.uk) isn't taking bookings yet. The 'a ferry to' site seems to give P&O prices, as they are only valid until 30 Sept, and the LD Lines Le Havre route isn't listed yet under the 'compare prices' option.

The news first appeared on 15 September on the www.ferrynews.com website, but it was far from firm then. Louis Dreyfuss was one of the possible operators named in a story in Lloyd's List a few weeks back.

[BJSLIV]

Found this

http://users.pandora.be/eddy.lannoo/images/rmt/PF/cert_posters/techfolder_ar.jpg

Which shows the original set up as being 121 cabins which certainly sounds a lot less than the "Olau Prides".

NB

You can register here

http://www.ldlines.co.uk/

To be notified when the online booking system becomes available.

 

[Nick Trollope]

Just got a very nice email from one Chris Howe-Davies at LD-Lines, so I get a quote from their website (quick) - £314!

BF (albeit Caen-Ports.) - £216 - same dates, roughly same times, same cabins.

Don't think I'll be bothering with them, then.

 

[Alane]

I agree. I tried a Friday night to Sunday booking in November with a cabin on the way out - would have cost around £80-£100 depending on offers with P&O and it came out at £230.

To be fair their mail did say it was "The service is positioned as a low cost no frills operation with a simple pricing structure " so it is the same price for a two week crossing. The same 2 week crossing next July is £256.

Oh well - back to the Tunnel Frequent Traveller scheme.

Best Regards

Alan.

 

[zeb]

Well - got a quote for 21st - 28th December for 2 of us (same week as we are booked on speedferries) - £410!!!

Will stay with speedferries methinks!

[Will]

I tried a couple of quotes earlier and decided to stick with Brittany Ferries. There are no frills services and no frills services, but spending 11pm to 730am on board a ship with hardly any cabins and no reclining seats pushes the envelope rather too far for me. Pricing structure based on two single fares is very laudable, but when the single ticket is close to that of the competition I see no advantage in paying high fares for a no-frills service when I can pay similarly high fares for an excellent, top of the range, and far more convenient, service.

Having just tried the on-line booking link in the e-mail again, I see that it now directs potential customers not to a booking site, as previously, but to the parent company's home page, with no apparent option to book a ferry. Maybe customer comments are forcing a re-think?

[BJSLIV]

Having just tried the on-line booking link in the e-mail again, I see that it now directs potential customers not to a booking site, as previously, but to the parent company's home page, with no apparent option to book a ferry.

Perhaps the booking site has crashed under the weight of all the incoming cash.

More likely to be everyone from Living France, TF , and AI having a "what if" wander around.

[Will]

I e-mailed LD Lines yesterday pointing out that I was still being quoted nearly as much for LD Lines' no-frills service as I was paying for a more frequent, top-range service with the competition: and more when the discount schemes were taken into account. It seems that LD Lines thinks it has got things right, according to this response from their Chris Howe-Davies:

Apologies for the delay in responding but as you have rightly assumed we are flat out at the moment trying to get ready for the start of the service.

With regard to pricing, we have tried to simplify the structure and eliminate the criticism that is normally leveled at ferry operators but we do have to make enough money to stay in business, unlike P&O.

As our pricing is based on individual sailing legs as opposed to the duration, I think you will find that the longer the time between the outward and return crossing the cheaper we are to the competition.

Having said this I have just made a comparison, going out on 1/12/05 returning on 3/12/05 and Brittany is £182 and we are £138; on our service you do not have to take cabins.

In addition, as we will initially only be offering 1 daily sailing in each direction we do not expect our service will appeal to many short duration customers.

This is early days for our service and we will constantly monitor our pricing and customer feedback and where appropriate will try to accommodate as many customers as possible.

I hope this explains our rationale; many thanks for your feedback, feel free to stay in touch and let me know your thoughts.

I will be happy to pass on any feedback from forum members, I have already pointed out in reply that I appreciate the costs of running a ferry service, and that P&O was not able to make the western channel routes pay, and that I frequently find myself having to explain (usually unsuccessfully)how Speedferries can offer £19 single fares on the short routes but the operators of the longer routes cannot do likewise.

[BJSLIV]

He obviously has a standard letter , as a virtually identical reply has appeared in "another (fluffy) place".

I think they are going to be cheaper in a Transmanche  way , rather than a Speedferries sort of way. A little less expensive for a long stay because of the two singles approach, but few bargains for a quick trip. As we have said before they cannot afford to operate at the £19 level, and given the very visible non arrival of Speed2 one wonders just how long SF will be able to do so.

My feeling is that Speedferries had been hoping to pull the Ryanair trick of headline low/free prices whilst creaming off some profits on some much higher priced last minute booking. Unfortunately they seem to be caught in a vicious circle meaning that the minute they try to edge up any of their prices, all their new found friends (customers) turn on them and say, well at that price I might as well go by tunnel, P&O, hoverspeed.....

[Dick Smith]

What does he mean by 'on our service you do not have to take cabins' do you think? I'm too long in the tooth for spending the night in the public areas!

[Will]

Me too Dick. I think he is overlooking the fact that you can opt for a seat on Brittany Ferries too, if you don't want to pay for a cabin.

[Will]

A further e-mail reply received (almost certainly another slightly modified standard letter, as it doesn't really address some of the points raised by me).

"Many thanks for your reply; we are keen to understand all our potential customers’ requirements.

 

Because we are offering a reduced number of sailings to the previous services we have no real idea of how many passengers we are likely to carry and have had to strike a balance between optimism and reality. In addition as we only have a very limited number of cabins available we are not sure how passengers will react to this on our overnight crossings.

 

What this means in practice is that we will have to see how it goes over the first 6 months and then adjust accordingly and hopefully if the demand is high we will be able to improve our rates.

 

It is our intention to ultimately drive the pricing on a demand/time before travel basis which would benefit frequent travelers such as you who know in advance of their departure dates.

 

Sorry I don’t have an ideal answer for you at present but rest assured we intend to take note of customer feedback and where possible provide a solution."

At least the company is listening to what potential customers say, even if it doesn't alter anything short-term (to be fair I wouldn't really expect it to) and is prepared to make some sort of response to questions.

As far as pricing for passengers and cars is concerned, I would have thought personally that Norfolk Lines offered perhaps the best model - that after all started off, Like LD Lines, as primarily a freight service (and arguably still is) that offers good deals for non-commercial traffic in order to make up the capacity.

Another point is that P&O, before it declared its intention to pull out of the western Channel routes, announced that it was investigating transferring the Le Havre service to Ouistreham in order to save costs. Although Le Havre is a popular freight port it seems LD Lines has saddled itself with high costs to start with, though I believe that the port may be offering some help to get the new service off the ground.

[Miki]

"....What this means in practice is that we will have to see how it goes over the first 6 months and then adjust accordingly and hopefully if the demand is high we will be able to improve our rates."

Bill, love that part of the reply !

Demand is high so we will REDUCE the rates !! Blimey, the pigs are flying high today

I am still fascinated, that only a few years ago P&O were making good money from the Le Havre and within a couple of years or so, they couldn't make it pay ! The only chance this compnay has is "to risk" offering low prices and incentives to gain the many folks that are after a cheaper alternative to B.F.

Anything not a lot cheaper will see any potential users continue with B.F. "Cheap frills" a la Speedferries, must mean cheap prices and a lot cheaper than B.F can offer.

Stay up all night in a chair for a couple of bob less than BF.... don't think so !

[Dick Smith]

"It is our intention to ultimately drive the pricing on a demand/time before travel basis which would benefit frequent travelers such as you who know in advance of their departure dates."

Isn't that the variable pricing policy so beloved of BF?

[BJSLIV]

I think he is overlooking the fact that you can opt for a seat on Brittany Ferries too, if you don't want to pay for a cabin

But with P&O you had to take a cabin if there were any available.  Only latecomers were allowed to slum it!

[jpbertrand]

[quote]I think he is overlooking the fact that you can opt for a seat on Brittany Ferries too, if you don't want to pay for a cabin But with P&O you had to take a cabin if there were any available. O...[/quote]

Well just wait and see...

In my opinion this will be a failure for LDLines to operate a ferry trade, their core-business used to be freight transportation (especially north africa trade) but Gefco who is their 1st freight customer (subsidiary of PSA Peugeot Citroen) is in a difficult economic situation so LDLines had to create new businesses.

Their previous experience of PAX transportation is a litte failure (Eurostar Valencia from toulon to civitavecia), this trade is not profitable at all for them and customers who took this vessel didn't look very satisfied...

Furthermore the quotation for Le Havre / Portsmouth looks pretty expensive for pax and freight, SpeedFerry and BF are much more attractive prices, so bye bye LD Lines ...

[croftside]

Hi all, first post on this forum, I must admit I usually stick wi Totalfrance, but this is important and I need as much feedback from you lot as possible!... Like me,  I see a lot of you have been in correspondence with Chris Howe-Davies from L D Lines, well yesterday as we live not far from Portsmouth I offered to meet with him, if it would be any help, (at this point my only interest is to get cheaper fares, as we have a house in Calvados which we are in the middle of renovation and we go to on a very regular basis) He emailes straight back and it looks like we will meet up week after next.  He rang me this afternoon, just before having a meeting to run something past me!  One of the suggestions I made to him was that they think about a Loyalty or Frequent Traveller scheme, well it looks like they may well be doing just that, its what they were going to discuss at the meeting.   What I need from you lot is any other ideas or suggestions that may help them and us, Lets face it its in all our interests that Brittany Ferries dont end up with a monopoly. I want to go to the meeting well armed, if you know what I mean.   Anyway looking forward to your Ideas, and lets hope we all end up with a good result.  At least this guy Listens, which is more than can be said for the opposition.

Geof

 

 

 

 

[Nick Trollope]

[quote]Hi all, first post on this forum, I must admit I usually stick wi Totalfrance, but this is important and I need as much feedback from you lot as possible!... Like me, I see a lot of you have been in ...[/quote]

It doesn't take a marketing genius to work out what we (those of us in the west, at least) want;

Western channel routes that are as good as and cheaper than BF! Why else would we change?

 

[Danglar]

What we need is a scheme for us home owners.

You are renovating in Calvados and I have to maintain in Eure. You know how important and a times essential it is to just pop over for a w/end.

They should introduce pop over fares - w/e (not just 24hrs!!), 3 days and 5 days - but for registered home owners only, me thinks.

They should introduce bulk buying, like P&O used to: 8/10 returns at a time for a large discount.

Good luck and regards

Danglar

[croftside]

Nick, Nice Idea as good as BF but cheaper. Just not very realistic I'm afraid. If LD Lines do as they say, a No Frils service at competitive rates I can go with that. They are at least taking notice of what we are saying, Chris Howe-Davies rang me again tonight after their meeting, and they are seriously looking at a discount membership scheme of some kind but may take some time to implement,and they are looking to drop the price of their cabins, he also said they are going to have some inside 2 berth cabins available when the ship gets here which is at present in dry dock in Dunkirk. Its early days for them and I do believe they will respond to honest feedback. In answer to Danglar's post, their fare structure is not based on duration of stay at all, but I do have a problem with giving any company a lot of money up front for tickets, call me old fashened if you like but I would rather pay a small anual fee and then get the discount when I book the fare.

 I think we do need to work together on this, Its in all of our interests if LD Lines sucseed, I tried a while ago to contact the boss of BF...... Not a bloody hope you can't get past some smarmy marketing manager, who fobs you off with a load of rubbish.  Lets give them a chance, If they dont come up with the goods  it will be a great shame and a wasted opportunity on their part.

Geof