Flybe credit card charges.

[Miki]

I have been completely thrown by the way in which Flybe charge their clients for paying online, by for instance, Visa.

I paid online to Flybe, for my Sister and her friend to fly to France

in a couple of months time. Having sorted out dates, flights etc, (and

paying £2 each way, each for both of them (Total £8.00 ) to have a

case, weighing up to 25 kgs put onboard, fair enough I guess, as hand

luggage is now up to 10kgs and crikey, it is FREE, wow !

I digress, I hadn't noticed that Flybe charge for use of credit card

but naturally expected it (although I had just paid for an hotel for them

the night before, that didn't charge for paying by credit card, nor

come to think of it, did the Airport parking either, oh well !) What

was looking like a £1.75 charge for paying be credit card ended up as

£7.00. Must get better glasses for the small print !

Why, well it is £1.75 per person, each way, which in this case, therefore worked out at nearly 6% ! One thing I am learning is that the budget airline flights can be cheap but add on the charges,

such as airport taxes (does anyone know the charges that certain

airports do actually make on the airline?) and everything adds up

pretty quick. The thing is, for my Sister, annually she gets 2 free

flights as well as some heavily discounted flights with B.A, so is a

bit snoooty when it comes to talking about cheapie airlines and says

convincingly, that the extras help their annual profits. I am wondering about that !

[Ron Avery]

Miki

Both Ryanair and BMI Baby charge for usung credit cards, although it is a one off charge per transaction, not per person per flight as with Flybe.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

It is a bit rich for the "low cost" mob to make claims about the

outragous prices on the like of BA and then add on layer upon layer of

charges until, whoops, they just ain't cheap anymore. Perhaps they

should renegotiate their card deals - our pathetic little enterprise

pays 0.6% so perhaps they could do better than 6%. What next? A special

"Fly BE Annual Profit Charge," "Ryanair Cabin Air Supply Tax," paying to use

the onboard loos?

[8o|]

[Miki]

I can fully understand why some budget organisations charge for

payments by credit card. They can show low prices in the knowledge that

they can make lots of little extras, safely knowing that much of it

will be towards profits. What surprised me, was the diabolical way

Flybe had of charging a credit card in the way that it did not relate

to amount paid (as is often, the prefectly normal method, we know, we charged

like that but without the little charges on top !) but to simply make a

profit from the way they make their credit card charges, is quite

staggering.

If that is the way budget airlines are going, then watch out for the

next charge, maybe a whip round on each flight for new sunglasses for

the Captian, no that would be silly wouldn't it ????????

Saw your post after posting mine jond and quite agree with yours and indeed our bank charged us the same.

[Iceni]

jond - most businesses charge what they think the market will bear and why not ?. I am sure that Flybe has negotiated a good deal with the credit card companies but they are not obliged to share it. Many of the cheapie's costs are avoidable e.g excess luggage, food, drinks so the cost of travel can be contained but many people don't bother.

In an ideal world passengers and their luggage would be chraged per kg. but that might be a tad impractical.

John

not

[Teamedup]

And what an incentive to get thin and remain thin.

My son and I  were placed next to a bloke who took up a seat and a half in a three seat row on an aircraft once. I insisted that another seat was found and when the bloke realised that only one of us was going to be next to him then relaxed and a few more inches of flab rolled onto the spare seat.

 

TU who is not thin, but only takes up one seat.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Iceni"]

 I am sure that Flybe has negotiated a good deal with the credit

card companies but they are not obliged to share it. Many of the

cheapie's costs are avoidable e.g excess luggage, food, drinks so the

cost of travel can be contained but many people don't bother.

[/quote]

John - you are, of course, right in saying this. What I find objectionable is the implication

that these are unavoidable charges that the poor beleaguered airline

has to bear by dint of having to deal with the evil old bank and (they

really hate having to do this, mind) these have to be passed on to the

fare paying passenger otherwise their children would starve. Why can't

they come clean? "We are levying this charge because our chairman is in

dire need of a new villa in the British Virgin Islands in order that he

may visit his money more regularly." I for one would be much more

inclined in their favour if they did.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

PS. foam, cluck, gibber.

[Brilec]

Of course, there is no law that says you HAVE to use a credit card, there are other ways to pay.

If you want credit, or in fact a short term loan, from a bank, or credit card company, someone has to pay for this. If you pay with money that you actually have, then there is no charge.

[Baz]

Whilst I except that Flybe in line with some other low cost airlines charges for the use of Credit and Debit cards. However, charging for using  Maestro or Switch  cards which are direct payments from a bank accounts is really not acceptable as they will not except cash or cheques for internet bookings. But all little known fact is that they accept the use of  an Electron  card with no charge. But who uses Electron????? 

Baz

[Will]

It's very common practice to add a surcharge for bookings made by credit card, and not only low-cost carriers do it. Brittany Ferries UK, for one, charges an extra £3 per booking for paying by credit card (though not via its French web site).

There is no excuse though for making a surcharge for using a debit card, neither for making a surcharge per passenger journey rather than per booking. Brittany Ferries charging policy does, for once, get a thumbs up because it gives a £10 online booking discount (which was very useful for our recent very cheap foot passenger bookings made with Switch and the BF discount card, which made the cheap airlines look rather expensive).

[Miki]

[quote user="Brilec"]

Of course, there is no law that says you HAVE to use a credit card, there are other ways to pay.

If you want credit, or in fact a short term loan, from a bank, or

credit card company, someone has to pay for this. If you pay with money

that you actually have, then there is no charge.

[/quote]

Brilec, that's another thing altogether.

When I first read it, I looked all over the tower part of the computer,

seeing where I could shove some money in to pay by cash !

We are all aware that companies, even us, have the right to pass their

charges on for anyone wishing to pay by credit card, no worries there,

it is an acceptable buisness practice, especially when the charges are

fully apparent but as Bill picked up, charging per person, per each

way, really is just taking the proverbial and has nothing to do with

covering costs incurred but simply to make them a profit on the

transaction and that has to be 100% unustifiable.

What happens if a person goes in alone to buy a kitchen, settles on a

price and sum for the credit card charge, then goes back a few days

later to pay in full, the salesman notices there are now four of them

present, so says, "Aha, that's a different charge, sorry you are now

liable to pay a couple of quid each on top on your card" Same

principle, the total is still the same, so how come Flybe charge per

number of persons, per each journey one takes ? Don't tell me, I

know...........

By the way, we get charged the same by our bank (and therefore the

credit card company) for any Debit card or similar, as for a credit

card, strange eh !

[Cerise]

Living in France my French DEBIT card is treated by wretched airlines as though it was a CREDIT card.  Trust me the blasted thing would not work if there was not money in the account.  Do not have a Fench credit card but on querying this was told by bank that in their eyes (French Bank that is) my card is a credit card as I can pay for things with it (!?) even though I don't do so on credit and only other sort of card is a cash only type - so does that mean only the English or those with English bank accounts get this option.  Seems a bit mean.  This, together with my new understanding that if me and him indoors go to UK together we can no longer take only one suitcase if our joint luggage comes to more than 15kg (Ryanair) means that I am rapidly going off these so called cheap airlines.  Or perhaps I will just have to travel alone and leave him here to earn more money to pay all these extra charges[:)]

 

Maggi

[Deimos]

Whilst I hate companies that charge for using one’s credit

card, I guess that in practice, with those that don’t you are paying for it

anyway – just bundled-in the price and everybody pays, including those that use

credit cards.

Apart from the commission charged by the credit card

companies there are issues that can also increase their costs such as the

credit card company’s “charge backs” – which can sometimes extend for more than

a year and take an age of administration time to deal with.  The number/frequency/proportion of “charge

backs” can vary massively between different industry sectors so it would be

difficult to know their experience and thus their costs for handling credit

cards.

I suppose in one respect it’s a bit like charging for

checked baggage.  In one respect seems a

way to extort more money from customers, but in another respect might be

thought of as people paying for the services they use (i.e. carry more luggage,

more weight, more baggage handling costs, etc., they pay towards the airline’s

increased costs).

That said, I don’t like credit card surcharges though can

see the justification for them.

Ian

[Will]

Cerise is right, French bank cards, although they are really debit cards, are treated by most companies in the same way as credit cards. My guess is that French banks charge commission for purchases made with these cards in the same was as credit card companies do, whereas British debit cards are treated in much the same way as cheques.

Deimos is right too, when there is no surcharge, everybody pays. If you get an English card purchase receipt from a big chain like Homebase (for one) you will see that the transaction is put through a handling company so Homebase actually receives about 2.5% les than you pay, so those paying by cheque or cash effectively pay extra for the same product.

[Iceni]

Not quite Will - all customers pay the same price for the same product, Homebase though receives less from some customers than others.

The more mature among us will remember the good old days when those buying petrol (and possibly other things) and paying by credit card suffered a modest surcharge. Sadly this as with so many sensible ideas had to be scrapped. Far easier for the seller to increase the prices for all despite incurring costs on payment by some.

John

not

[Clarkkent]

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that ALL payment methods incur costs.

• Cash has to be counted, stored securely and carried to the bank (or the bank - in the form of a security firm - collects it).
• Cheques have to be transported to be paid in and their value is not cleared for several days - resulting in a loss of potential interest (or worse - temporary insolvency!) and banks may charge for handling them.
• Debit card transfers - which ought to be instantaneous - are treated like cheques and banks may wait a few days before clearing them.

The transaction fees charged to merchants by credit card companies may not, in reality, be very much greater than the costs of other payment methods and it is unfortunate that consumers cannot challenge credit card surcharges.

FlyBe have got a nice little earner here. Perhaps they may put their credit card gains to good use by getting a fleet of decent aircraft.

[Brian]

Some years ago Gerald Ratner let slip his real feelings regarding his customers. The latest press release/email from Flybe offers a enhanced service, Economy Plus, (at a enhanced cost no doubt) in order that "for a just few extra £s fly like the other half...    ...why huddle with the masses"  - Do they mean us??

As regards Clarkkents comments re payments methods, I also have to count cash, bank cheques, etc and feel that the banks are coy about how much they profit from all methods of payment, while large organisations ignore the advantages they get from these types of transactions - perhaps card transactions should incur no charges while other methods do! Debit / credit card transactions do not involve actual handling of assets which may be misappropriated or otherwise involve security risks. I well remember (in the 60s) when I was in the RN how the fortnightly transfer of cash from the bank to the pay office was shadowed by a naval helicopter to the naval base to deter any attempt to steal it on the journey.

Brian

[Owens88]

Funnily enough banks may charge for taking cash as well.

The credit card surcharge is way ott. In fairness it costs the vendor slightly more for a credit card than a cashcard. I believe it costs slightly more for some (e.g. AMEX) than others (e.g. Mastercard). If they were really on a cost recovery exercise they would apply differential charges related only to the differences between them. 

How an internet service has the cheek to apply a credit card surcharge, when they cannot take cash or cheques anyway, beggars belief.

 

John

[Brilec]

You have to remember that as far as the UK is concerned, many internet bookings only attract a surcharge for credit card transactions, not for debit cards. I will always use the latter when this applies.

Most of the local shopkeepers I talk to tell me that debit card transactions are much cheaper to them than credit cards.

Of course, the cost is nothing like the charges that Flybe are levying.

[Miki]

Well blow me down, it's catching.

Have been trying to book flights with Ryanair (for friends and family)

and they too now charge per passenger, per each flight at £1.75 for

credit cards and 40p for debit cards. Electron is free as well as kids booked, who also have no credit card charges.

Brilec, as I said before, we get charged exactly the same in France,

whether we take credit or debit cards but we don't pass on debit card

fees to our clients. I think the UK credit card companies base their

charges differently to the ones here.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Deimos"]

I suppose in one respect it’s a bit like charging for

checked baggage.  In one respect seems a

way to extort more money from customers, but in another respect might be

thought of as people paying for the services they use (i.e. carry more luggage,

more weight, more baggage handling costs, etc., they pay towards the airline’s

increased costs).

[/quote]

OK - then a logical extension of this should be to "weigh-in" customers

with all of their baggage and charge on a per kilo basis, perhaps with

some flat charge for seat occupancy. Why should I (sylph-like) pay the

same fare as some Jabba The Hut character with 14 chins? [8o|] Unreasonable? Is baggage handling charged on a per bag or per flight basis? I know what would be simpler to administer.

All this charging for excess baggage and card transactions are just

schemes dreamed up by some jumped-up little toerags with MBAs and poor

social skills to improve the bottom lines by confusing

customers out of their hard earned. It's not illegal, just a tiny bit

dishonest (in my opinion, anyway). I am delighted to hear that there is

at least one website doing more-or-less realtime comparisons of the

actual costs of flights and I just hope that they can start including

more airlines in their computations.

[Owens88]

Actually a pricing strategy based on 'confuse then surcharge' is unlikely to be an MBA one as it has negative consequences in the long run. That strategy is much more like the early days of mobile phones, and before that second hand car salesmen (old school).

Howver the guy at Ruinair is probably wishing that the CAA would allow standing passengers, then he could charge extra for a seat.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

"Actually a pricing strategy based on 'confuse then surcharge' is

unlikely to be an MBA one as it has negative consequences in the long

run."

Certainly my experience of working with MBAs is that the "long run" is

not a factor often taken into account. The timeframe I have been more

used to is that remaining until the next dishing out of stock options.

Anyway, 'confuse then surcharge' would be an advance on 'reduce

headcount by sacking experienced hires in order to boost short-term

profitability then give away any gains by having to hire consultants to

keep the business working once the solids hit the punkah (so frequently

the experienced hires that one sacked in the first place)' which seems

to be the most usual modus operandi..

[Deimos]

[quote user="jond"]

OK - then a logical extension of this should be to "weigh-in"

customers with all of their baggage and charge on a per kilo basis, perhaps

with some flat charge for seat occupancy.

[/quote]

You may laugh (though its actually quite serious), though I

read some months ago on BBC rss that some US airlines are considering

doing just that (don’t know about the luggage but certainly the people).  Apparently airlines base their estimate of the

aircraft weight (for things like fuel use, take-off considerations, etc. and

thus costs) on an “average passenger weight”. 

Seems that as obesity is now such a problem in US that the passenger

weight is now significant, estimates having proved inaccurate.  The article said that airlines’ profits are

already under some pressure and that weighing passengers is “being considered”.  See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3984973.stm

Ian