Zero tolerence on speed limits

[Rod Jones]

I don't know if anyone else has fallen fowl to this purge, but during my return journey from the UK to Limousin last week, I managed to pickup two speeding tickets for marginal infringements, both on the urban motorways around Paris, and within a short time of each other. Apparently, the police were enforcing the policy where 1kph over the speed limit is an offence, ie 111 in a 110 limit (it’s on the ticket).

 

As I’m sure everyone knows, the major roads around Paris are labyrinthine and busy, and as well as the demands of self-navigation, there’s much lane changing, constant braking for the inevitable ‘bouchons’, and of course motorcyclists overtaking on both sides. You need to keep your wits about you, and preferably have eyes in the back of your head, so I’m curious to know if the Parisian police really believe that road safety is best served by forcing motorists to obsessively watch their speedometers.

 

If the authorities are serious about an absolute maximum speed, perhaps it would be better to have lower maximum of (say) a 100kph and allow the motorist a little more leeway.

 

The current 0% leeway begins to look like a transparent attempt to generate revenue.

[Chancer]

What speed(s) were you recorded at?

[Sunday Driver]

If you check out this [url=http://www.easydroit.fr/code-de-la-route/code-de-la-route-illustre/circulation/vitesse-retenue-et-sanctions.htm]website[/url] you'll find a chart showing the automatic tolerances taken into account when calculating your 'ticket'.

If they've 'done' you for 111kph, then your true speed will have been 117kph and you've already received the tolerance.

 

 

[Rod Jones]

95 in a 90 limit and 114 in a 110 limit.

I know it's my own fault, but I'm not arguing in favour of speeding. I'm just questioning whether road safety is the primary goal here.

[PaulT]

There are a few roads with minimum speed limits but these are well below the maximum speed limit. No one is forced to travel at the maximum speed limit. If there are motorcycles whizzing everywhere and frequent lane changing it is perhaps best not to travel at anywhere near the maximum limit - plus you wont get any tickets

Paul

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Rod Jones"]

95 in a 90 limit and 114 in a 110 limit.

I know it's my own fault, but I'm not arguing in favour of speeding. I'm just questioning whether road safety is the primary goal here.

[/quote]

 In this case yes, those speed limits and enforcement cameras were put in a couple of years back to reduce the carnage on those roads, particularly the A86 and A1 out to the airport.

[Just Chris]

That seems a little over zealous to me.  Speedometers aren't necessarily an exact science, particularly analogue ones, so a few KPH here or there should be tolerable I'd have thought.  The comments regarding taking a consideration of everything that's going on around you are about right - you shouldn't have to have your eyes glued to the speedometer in case you exceed an arbitrary speed limit, when self preservation often necessitates primary concentration on other criteria.

The reliance on speed cameras to reduce accidents, rather than human observation by police of driving habits by road users has always been controversial, and despite denials it's fairly obvious that the principle consideration is revenue.

I challenge ANYONE (who drives, that is) to hand-on-heart assert that they have NEVER exceeded a prescribed speed limit.

Chris

[AnOther]

Whilst there has been much talk and rumour about "zero tolerance"

cameras I do not believe they are in serious use anywhere and are

unlikely to be until the methods of drivers safely and

consistently monitoring their speed to the degree of accuracy required

exist and are a standard fit to all vehicles - i.e. not in any of our lifetimes !

This topic pops up from time to time and I have previously quoted the following from Hansard and the ACPO:

"Speedometer Accuracy

Lord Allen of Abbeydale asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in the light of the increasing importance of speed
limits, they have any plans to make it easier for the private motorist
to have his speedometer tested for accuracy.[HL839]

Lord Whitty: The Road

Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended, allows

the use of speedometers that meet the requirements of EC Community

Directive 75/443(97/39) or ECE Regulation 39. Both the EC Directive and

the ECE Regulation lay down accuracy requirements to be applied at the

time of vehicle approval for speedometers. These requirements are that

the indicated speed must not be more than 10 per cent of the true speed

plus 4 km/h. In production, however, a slightly different tolerance of

5 per cent plus 10 km/h is applied. The requirements are also that the

indicated speed must never be less than the true speed.

A vehicle meeting these

requirements would not be able to travel at a greater speed than that

shown on the speedometer and a driver could not, therefore,

inadvertently exceed speed restrictions. Her Majesty's Government have

no plans to introduce instrument tests.

ACPO Guidelines;

Vehicle construction and use regulations require a vehicle

speedometer accuracy to be in the range of -0->+10%. The

implications are that it must never under-read - for obvious reasons -

but may over-read. As the cost of manufacturing a speedometer with -0%

error would be very costly they all over-read by a few percent without

exception. Even if speed is measured correctly the display may not be

accurate, so a speedometer error is allowed. Because of this, the

Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) have an official formula

for calculating a speeding offence. It allows a leeway of 10% plus

2mph. In reality, most speed traps are triggered at higher speeds than

this because if they were set bang-on those guidelines, the sheer

amount of paperwork generated would overrun the police speeding

departments."

[Bugsy]

[quote user="P2"]

......................................... If there are motorcycles whizzing everywhere and frequent lane changing .....................................

[/quote]

All within the speed limit. of course.

.

[Anton Redman]

I thought sections of the M4 and M25 in the UK had zero tollerance on them

[sid]

I must be having one of those 'blank' moments; I don't understand the table SD has referred to. [blink]

There appears to be a different tolerance applied to fixed cameras as opposed to mobile ones. For the example of the OP, done for 111kph, is the table suggesting that the offender may have passed a fixed camera at 111kph or alternatively a mobile camera at 124kph?? [8-)] 

Help!

Sid

[AnOther]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]I thought sections of the M4 and M25 in the UK had zero tollerance on them[/quote]But still within the allowable margins of error.

[Alex H]

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="Anton Redman"]I thought sections of the M4 and M25 in the UK had zero tollerance on them[/quote]But still within the allowable margins of error.

[/quote]

I can't find anything on these 'sections' - someone point me in the right direction please [:)]

[Bugsy]

Why not simply use the speedo element on your Sat-Nav (if you've got one, of course), to check your speed against your speedo, its far more accurate.

On dual carriageways and the peage, run the car up to speed using the sat nav, set the cruise control, problem solved, no speeding.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Bugsy"]Why not simply use the speedo element on your Sat-Nav (if you've got one, of course), to check your speed against your speedo, its far more accurate. [/quote]

I don't have a car SATNAV, but I do have a Garmin GPS 12 from the days when I had a boat (as back up to the compass and paper charts).  As an experiment I drove around for a while with it on the dashboard of my car.  I found that with the speedo at 90, I was only doing about 84 KPH.  With the profileration of SATNAV as standard in many cars, and the ability to drive at much more accurate speeds, it probably goes someway to explain the cars overtaking me when as far as I was concerned I was driving at the speed limit, but then not pulling away from me at any great rate.

I also now know what speeds I can drive at to be flic and camera safe[6]

[PaulT]

[quote user="Maricopa"]

[quote user="Bugsy"]Why not simply use the speedo element on your Sat-Nav (if you've got one, of course), to check your speed against your speedo, its far more accurate. [/quote]

I don't have a car SATNAV, but I do have a Garmin GPS 12 from the days when I had a boat (as back up to the compass and paper charts).  As an experiment I drove around for a while with it on the dashboard of my car.  I found that with the speedo at 90, I was only doing about 84 KPH.  With the profileration of SATNAV as standard in many cars, and the ability to drive at much more accurate speeds, it probably goes someway to explain the cars overtaking me when as far as I was concerned I was driving at the speed limit, but then not pulling away from me at any great rate.

I also now know what speeds I can drive at to be flic and camera safe[6]

[/quote]

All cars speedo read high. Therefore, anyone who was, say 5 kph over the limit must have had their speedo showing at least 10 kph above the limit.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="P2"]All cars speedo read high.[/quote]

I know, I was trying to establish how high for certain speeds.

[quote user="P2"] Therefore, anyone who was, say 5 kph over the limit must have had their speedo showing at least 10 kph above the limit.[/quote]

Mad isn't it[:-))]

[AnOther]

There is no set figure nor will it necessarily be linear across the speed range. If it were a known constant then everybody would drive to it entirely negating it's purpose.

From my earlier post;

"Vehicle construction and use regulations require a vehicle

speedometer accuracy to be in the range of -0% - >+10%"

[Maricopa]

I was just talking about my car.[;-)]

[AnOther]

Only practical way would be to recalibrate against a SatNav [;-)]

[Sunday Driver]

I just drive to the speed shown on my speedometer.  I know it reads a couple of kph higher than actual, so together with the 5kph tolerance for fixed radar cameras, I'm never going to exceed the limit and get flashed.

Simple really......[Www]

 

[Maricopa]

[quote user="ErnieY"]Only practical way would be to recalibrate against a SatNav [;-)][/quote]

As I did say in my OP, albeit against a bog standard GPS, not a SATNAV.

And I agree with SD, thats what I do most of the time.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Maricopa"]a bog standard GPS, not a SATNAV[/quote]Can you explain this please, what do you mean by 'bog standard GPS ?

[Maricopa]

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="Maricopa"]a bog standard GPS, not a SATNAV[/quote]Can you explain this please, what do you mean by 'bog standard GPS ?

[/quote]

Hi Ernie Y, see this link.