Fi Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Have just booked last minute flights from Basle/Mulhouse to Gatwick with Easyjet. I was surprised to be asked for passport info (number, country of issue, validity, dob etc), otherwise I couldn't fly. "One or more of your destinations requires you to supply travel document information". I gave the information because I must fly to the UK urgently (my father has just died), but I am concerned about security/who can access this information and what they could do with it. The easyjet website wasn't exactly forthcoming with assurances about security. And given the government's propensity for leaving lapdogs/disks etc on buses and trains I'm not exactly thrilled about this information flying around the ether for all and sundry to access.Having recently been the victims of fraud (2000 gbp) from our UK Abbey account (now sorted out but deeply worrying at the time) we are very jumpy about the whole issue of online security. Why this change? On whose say-so? Presumably "national security" is the excuse, but surely this is a case of using a cruise missile to crack a quails' egg?Anyone got any ideas/comments??Fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Sorry to hear your sad news Fi,Yes the government want to know who is flying as part of the anti terrorism rules that they are frequently abusing these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8vkv Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 It happened to us on a 'last minute' booking - I think its something to do with bookings being made under 24 (48?) hours in advance. I don't think there's anything sinister about it. I suppose bookings made further in advance permit more time for security checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkhunter Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Hi Fi, sorry about your recent loss, maybe not a great idea but call them and explain your worries, bad time to do so but may put you at ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val douest Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Yes, Fi, I had the same experience yesterday when booking an Easyjet flight to Bordeaux for my daughter - yet on the same day I booked flights to Biarritz for friends using Ryanair (guess who has the electron card!) and there was no requirement for extra information. I know that it has been necessary for some time to supply passport details when booking any flights to Spain but I am sure this is not a general requirement for France. It sounds as if Easyjet are too lazy/incompetent to differentiate between what is demanded by different countries in Europe.Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 [quote user="val douest"]Yes, Fi, I had the same experience yesterday when booking an Easyjet flight to Bordeaux for my daughter - yet on the same day I booked flights to Biarritz for friends using Ryanair (guess who has the electron card!) and there was no requirement for extra information.[/quote]For Easyjet, you don't have to supply the details until you do the online check-in.Obviously if you have bought at the last minute, then you have to provide them straight away. For others who have bought their tickets further in advance, I believe that if you intend to check-in at the airport with Easyjet, you have to provide the details on-line in the days leading up to your departure. When your friends book-in on-line for their Ryanair flight, they will have to provide the passport details, DoB, inside leg measurement, etc, which will then all be printed on their boarding card.However, the reasons behind this are to do with the UK Govt's E-borders project:http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/managingborders/technology/eborders/timetable/under which airlines etc are being required to provide data on all those who travel to or from the UK. From what I have seen and read, Easyjet and Ryanair have put their systems in place ahead of time as part of their ongoing IT development so that by the time they HAVE to be ready, they will already have mature systems that work reliably in place.RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fi Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 All very well but they make reference to security/data protection. This kind of information is a fraudster's honeypot. And I have checked in online and none of this information appears on my boarding card.Fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 [quote user="Fi"]All very well but they make reference to security/data protection. [/quote]Sorry Fi, I'm not being snotty, but I am interested in this. Who "make reference to security/data protection"? The airline? Security, perhaps - that is what e-borders is ostensibly about (whether it actually does improve security is another matter entirely, and whether the govt may have other agendas is likewise). Data protection? No. "Data protection" is nothing to do with justifying the collection of data (except in an inverse manner: organisations are required to be able to justify what data they collect and hold); it's about the control of the release of data. I have noticed that an awful lot of people who use "Data protection" as a reason for a particular course of action actually do not have the slightest clue what the Act actually says. If someone has said to you that the data is being collected for data protection reasons then they are in desperate need of some re-education.[quote user="Fi"] This kind of information is a fraudster's honeypot. [/quote] Agreed. The airline has a legal duty under the Data Protection Act to only collect the data that is necessary and sufficient to do the job (and in this case the job is to pass the data to the Borders Agency) and to have systems that are robust enough to prevent the release of the data to people that do not have a legitimate reason for seeing it. [quote user="Fi"]And I have checked in online and none of this information appears on my boarding card.[/quote]That would be because you have checked in with Easyjet. Ryanair boarding cards contain passport number, DoB, nationality and country issuing the passport, date of expiry of passport. The idea is that the Ryanair subcontractor's gate staff are supposed to check the passport details against the details entered on the boarding card (and hence those that have been communicated to the Borders Agency) and refuse boarding if there is a discrepancyRegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fi Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Given I have just provided sensitive information which would be more than useful to a fraudster, I would expect some reference to be made to how they (the airline/government) intend to ensure that my sensitive information doesn't fall in to the wrong hands.It was a few a years ago, but when I was the Data Protection Officer for a direct marketing company, we had to ensure the security and safety of the information held by us on you...... unless that has all changed of course.and, many thanks to those who expressed sympathy in what is a sad time for me - he had been sick for some time, and was positively ancient, but it is never easy to lose someone you are close to. I appreciate the those kind thoughts.Fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nell Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 It is not only late bookings. I had to give all this information when I booked a flight for my son 2 months ago and he is not coming out until October !!!Half way through the booking process (because you get no advance warning ....) I had to phone him and get all his passport details so that I could complete the transaction. Very annoying. I assumed it was for on-line check in, but obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Firstly please don't shoot the messenger or easyjet or any other airline for that matter....It's part of the (previously referred to ) UK e-borders project, and the regulations regarding airlines providing the UK Government with the Data now apply to most, if not all the airlines operating into the UK ( note - I emphasise it UK Government requirement, it's not a Spanish/ French/Ryanair/British Airways data trawling exercise).If it really upsets you I suggest you write to your MP or MEP, but since it's part of the Uk Government's Anti-Terrorist efforts I would we are stuck with it.......I would suggest it is also a pretty handy way of an increasingly draconian Government monitoring people's activities, but tbey wouldn't do that, would they?????Right, off for a lie down........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fi Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Stefan"]Firstly please don't shoot the messenger or easyjet or any other airline for that matter....It's part of the (previously referred to ) UK e-borders project, and the regulations regarding airlines providing the UK Government with the Data now apply to most, if not all the airlines operating into the UK ( note - I emphasise it UK Government requirement, it's not a Spanish/ French/Ryanair/British Airways data trawling exercise).If it really upsets you I suggest you write to your MP or MEP, but since it's part of the Uk Government's Anti-Terrorist efforts I would we are stuck with it.......I would suggest it is also a pretty handy way of an increasingly draconian Government monitoring people's activities, but tbey wouldn't do that, would they?????Right, off for a lie down........[/quote]I have no great problem with giving the information - I have nothing to hide - but I do have a problem with the security of my information (and it is mine, not the governments or anybody else's). We have all read the stories about disks being sent by snail mail/laptops left on the 1745 Waterloo-Hindhead/medical records fluttering around the dump. The information is gathered via a third party (e.g. Easyjet/Ryanair) so there are several "stages" for my information to pass through before the anti-terrorist bodies do their thing with it. I would like some assurance from the data collector that the information I willingly provide is going to be treated in a proper manner at all times; that there is some protocol in place which will ensure the security of my information and accountability at each stage of the process. If I discover that the protocol hasn't been followed, I can complain to someone. And heads will roll. Or am I just becoming paranoid in my dotage?Fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Firstly, sorry to hear of your loss.I find your reply below curious:[quote user="Fi"]Given I have just provided sensitive information which would be more than useful to a fraudster, I would expect some reference to be made to how they (the airline/government) intend to ensure that my sensitive information doesn't fall in to the wrong hands.It was a few a years ago, but when I was the Data Protection Officer for a direct marketing company, we had to ensure the security and safety of the information held by us on you...... unless that has all changed of course.How did the marketing company make reference to how they (the airline/government) intend to ensure that whoevers sensitive information doesn't fall in to the wrong hands - or did they not?Fi[/quote]Certainly, using the Tunnel they seem to be checking more thoroughly thatn before when just the sight of a red covered booklet would suffice.Plus, is it not the case that if the carrier lands someone who is not eligible to travel to this country they face a £2000 fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 FiI might just trust the commercial operators with the Data - because of the legislation in place under the Data Protection Act - but I see from your previous posts you are well aware of that. However I'm afraid given this Governments record with Data security I agree with your concerns - even a supposedly security savvy department such as the Ministry of Defence has been alarmingly lax with it's handling of data in recent months. I too think I have "nothing to hide" - at the moment, until the law is changed etc, etc....but I do admit to being deliberately evasive when airlines ask for information such as the "purpose of my flight".........they can insist I answer - they can't insist I answer honestly....yet!!!!P2Yes, if a carrier transports someone to the Uk who is "illegible" for entry the carrier is fined ( can't remember the exact amount)and also bears the cost of deporting the "illedgible" ....hence the Passport check at Check-in/Boarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 My avatar is very worried about the reference in the OP to leaving lapdogs on buses and trains. [:P]And as for carrying illegible people...Are we all turning French or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fi Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Will"]My avatar is very worried about the reference in the OP to leaving lapdogs on buses and trains. [:P]And as for carrying illegible people...Are we all turning French or something?[/quote]A joint operation for the RSPCA and Spooner Society I think.... [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braco Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Just another step in the process of keeping the populace fearful.But yet again we lag behind the US. They get you to complete their stupid form online, send you clearance to approach their immigration officers, and then get you to complete the same ridiculous form by hand.Watch this space we will be doing the same in a couple of years.All this nonsense has nothing to do with ‘terrorism’. It is simply a method for keeping the gullible and feeble minded in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 "...And as for carrying illegible people..."Sorry Will, my fault, FWIW the correct industry term is an "Inadmissable passenger"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Guerriere Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 For everyone's benefit, allow me to introduce some illegible people .......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqNAonCJEMM&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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