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Mr C

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Don't know where to look! I think someone on here might... please???!!!

My family and I all have British passports, and live full time in France.

A new daughter was born to us this week, here in France.

We now want to be able to travel quite soon to the UK...

What document does my baby require, and where can I get it done?

She had her birth registered in France of course, and is a French citizen by birth...

I know I do not need to notifiy the UK authorities about the birth etc, and I know I can apply for a UK passport... but really, as this is unnecessary, I don't want the expense nor the long wait for the process...

Thanks in advance...
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If the child is french, I would say a french passeport is essential, a french identity card might be sufficient in the Schengen area but I doubt it for the UK. Frankly I dont think there is an easy solution minors can not be added to a passport.I suggest you contact your local Subprefecture at the earliest. Interesting case keep us informed.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1922.xhtml

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The mairie of your commune will also help, some of the larger ones have the kit for passports and I.D cards including taking of photos; in fact easier than the UK. But are you sure the I.D will be sufficient for the UK. The link below gives information on obtaining the I.D for minor with or without passport. Not as expensive as you might think for the passport and gurgling babies brings out the matronal instinct in Secretaries at the mairie. The I.D is a civil right and is therefore free.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1342.xhtml

Most mairies in france even in the smallest communes are open on a friday, some morning and afternoon, so I would get yourself in gear tomorrow. Good Luck!

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I would rather she had a passport, but when I travelled recently with some French friends, they entered the UK with ID cards. Within the EU, you can travel freely with any national ID card, although now the UK cards have been scrapped, I guess any previously issued ID cards would not suffice. Technically speaking, you should be able to travel on any official photo ID, including a driving licence... I'd be interested to hear of anyone that has done that successfully! I suspect there will be no-one...

Unlike me, my new French daughter doesn't require a passport to live here!

Unfortunately, where I live, the secretariat of the Mairie are really not very knowledgeable - but we are a commune of just 82 so... However, the mayor himself is quite switched on, so I'll ask him... otherwise I know I can go to the city and get a passport - I just know how that could go, with me being British, and her being French...

Still, at 17€ instead of 120€ for a passport, it is well worth the hassle!!
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[quote user="Mr C"]I would rather she had a passport, but when I travelled recently with some French friends, they entered the UK with ID cards. Within the EU, you can travel freely with any national ID card, although now the UK cards have been scrapped, I guess any previously issued ID cards would not suffice. Technically speaking, you should be able to travel on any official photo ID, including a driving licence... I'd be interested to hear of anyone that has done that successfully! I suspect there will be no-one... Unlike me, my new French daughter doesn't require a passport to live here! Unfortunately, where I live, the secretariat of the Mairie are really not very knowledgeable - but we are a commune of just 82 so... However, the mayor himself is quite switched on, so I'll ask him... otherwise I know I can go to the city and get a passport - I just know how that could go, with me being British, and her being French... Still, at 17€ instead of 120€ for a passport, it is well worth the hassle!![/quote]

Whether your commune is 82 or not and whether or not you think the secretary is not very knowledgeable is unfortunate but not pertinent. The CNI carte nationale d'identité and indeed the passport UNLESS YOU LIVE IN PARIS are administratively initiated at the mairie. Personally given your apparent circumstances I consider that obtaining the CNI is the best option to take. Why because it is FREE FREE FREE; your erroneous assertion that the CNI costs € 17 is wrong on two counts, firstly the issuing of the first CNI is FREE and secondly a RENEWAL of a CNI is subject to a charge but the fee is not €17 but is today the 14th Janvier 2011 € 25. As a final contribution to this thread I attach a link from which you will be able to access on line the form used for making an application for a CNI, all you have to do is fill it in and take it with the other administrative requirements and take it to your mairie. I would advise you to request a récipissé in respect of the lodging of the application. The site pertinent to the link below will allow you to monitor the progress of the application.

http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/sections/a_votre_service/vos_demarches/carte-nationale-d-identite/cni-mineur

Have a good day!

EDIT MODIFYING POST IMPORTANT CORRECTION!

Important correction  I have just phoned my mairie; the form is no longer available on line and is only obtainable at the mairie.

There is now only available a SPECIMEN of the form

http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/sections/a_votre_service/vos_demarches/carte-nationale-d-identite/mineur-recto

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[quote user="Mr C"]. Technically speaking, you should be able to travel on any official photo ID, including a driving licence... I'd be interested to hear of anyone that has done that successfully! I suspect there will be no-one... [/quote]

 

I have sucessfully travelled within the Schengen area on a driving licence - passport was with a foreign embassy for a visa to be inserted.

 

Of course strictly speaking you don't need any documents to travel within Schengen, but try telling that to the airline boarding security at a French or Italian airport.

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Erm... I feel that I am being told off here...

It is the French passport which carries a €17 fee, which I compared to the UK passport ex-pat rate here in France of €120 (which then gets P&P etc added to it, so goes up even more...)

I know the ID card is free.
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[quote user="andyh4"]...neither do you [need a passport].  You do require it to cross out of the Schengen area however.[/quote]

That I didn't know... interesting... so my panic to renew three just last month was unnecessary then?

But the UK isn't part of the Schengen area... so I guess I still need something to travel freely there and back!
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[quote user="Mr C"]Erm... I feel that I am being told off here... It is the French passport which carries a €17 fee, which I compared to the UK passport ex-pat rate here in France of €120 (which then gets P&P etc added to it, so goes up even more...) I know the ID card is free.[/quote]

You think more than you know.

Will you be my friend on FB and make you happy?

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[quote user="Mr C"][quote user="andyh4"]...neither do you [need a passport].  You do require it to cross out of the Schengen area however.[/quote] That I didn't know... interesting... so my panic to renew three just last month was unnecessary then? But the UK isn't part of the Schengen area... so I guess I still need something to travel freely there and back![/quote]

 

It is a commonly held misconception that as foreigners we have to carry our passports with us at all times.

There is no such regulation.

A gendarme may stop you nd may demand evidence of who you are, but that evidence does not need to be a passport, it could be a drivers licnce - with or without picture (although picture is obviously more compelling) - or even your mate confirming who you are.

 

I have even been told that you do not need a passport to return to the UK if you are a british citizen with rights of residence in the UK - but I have never tried that one out.

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I would think you need to apply for a passport through the British embassy.  Can't really see an alternative if you want to travel.  As you are not resident in UK you cannot argue returning home as reason for travel.  The trip appears to be of your choice and therefore you will be deemed to have the appropriate documents.
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[quote user="Anton Redman II"]Why do you think your child is a French Citizen by birth ?

A child born to French parents resident in the Uk would not automatically be British. Wikipedia link below corresponds to my view. Suspect child either needs own UK passport or entry on parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law[/quote]

Good old Wikipedia!!

Actually, as we are (and have been for some years) French residents, my daughter is automatically claimed by l'Etat as property of France... And her birth certificate also shows that!

And, as we are British, and continue to have a right to live in Britain, my daughter is also British... so, of course she can have a British passport - but at £150? this becomes an unnecessary expense, if she can have a free ID card or a 17€ French Passport.

I knew this would become an interesting thread!
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Why, when I Preview my reply in which I have hit Quote, does it look right... but then when I post, it looks wrong?

Also, why can I not use Firefox for this forum?? (My FastestFox addon causes loading problems.)
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[quote user="Cendrillon"]Children are no longer allowed to be on U.K. parent's passport they must have one of their own. Our latest granddaughter got her passport age 7 weeks![:)]

[/quote]

Yes - both my other children had passports from birth, which are valid for five years - so looking at an almost-five-year-old and comparing them to a baby photo... not easy!!
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Seven or eight years ago I took the Eurostar from Ashford to Paris and left my passport at home. Not deliberately, you understand. There was no-one at Ashford looking at passports on the way out, and there was no-one in Paris looking at passports on the way back.

There was, however, a man on the train back checking passports. When I told him I didn't have mine, he was totally unconcerned: I filled out a very short form saying who I was and where I lived, which he kept. I don't think he even asked if I had any other forms of identification. And that was it. I suspect because processing forms like this is a bit of a chore, when the idiot with the missing passport is a boring white man with a London accent who is wearing a typical office suit and carrying a briefcase (as I then was), the form ended up in the wastepaper basket before the immigration official got off the train.

Things may be different now.

But I'd be interested if it was actually a legal requirement for UK nationals to carry a valid UK passport when entering or leaving the UK. If it is, it is a change in the last 50 years or so.

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Mr C, from what I can see from the French legal sites I've been looking at, all you need to do is take the birth certificate plus the other usual documents (baby photos etc) to your mairie and go from there.  But it does point out that smaller mairies cannot deal with passports and you will be directed to the nearest commune with the capability of doing the job for you - truer than ever now with biometric passports being more complicated for them to do.  As you say, it does appear that having been born here, French citizenship is not an issue, it's automatic (I think that's true in the US also and that there even the children of illegal immigrants gain such an automatic right to citizenship), but whether that's from birth I don't know yet.
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[quote user="cooperlola"]Mr C, from what I can see from the French legal sites I've been looking at, all you need to do is take the birth certificate plus the other usual documents (baby photos etc) to your mairie and go from there.  But it does point out that smaller mairies cannot deal with passports and you will be directed to the nearest commune with the capability of doing the job for you - truer than ever now with biometric passports being more complicated for them to do.  As you say, it does appear that having been born here, French citizenship is not an issue, it's automatic (I think that's true in the US also and that there even the children of illegal immigrants gain such an automatic right to citizenship.)[/quote]

Fairly common I have an argentinian daughter with dual nationality, in fact Argentinian nationality cannot be revoked.

But not always the case I have another child born in Zambia where the children of expatriate contractors must adopt the nationality of one of the parents. The High Commission in Lusaka issue the British birth certificate.

The OP is has already replied to my query that the CNI might not be valid for entry into UK as it is outside the Schengen Area. So he obviously knows more than his persona as an ignorant inquirer. His assertion that, " I thought this thread would be of interest" is a better indication of his motives.

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NO - no ulterior motive, I promise! Just as the thread panned out, I thought it would get interesting...

I'm not sure I like it that some thought me ignorant for posing the question, after all, some replies show others to be quite in the dark, and I have learned something, even if not the full response to my original question!
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