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Ferry prices on the up?


Chancer

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With the absence of Seafrance it seems that the ferry companies demand pricing systems are coming into play, I am doing the usual round of playing with dates and times etc to try and get an affordable deal for a trip to the UK possibly with my big trailer if there is any cheap insulation left.

P&O UK site wont load, on the french site I can find a couple of very cheap crossings for car and immense trailer at €48 yet the price for car alone seems relatively high, Norfolkline site will not accept any bookings for trailers or caravans (I am looking at the next 2 weeks) you have to phone which sounds ominous, the tunnel still offers day returns for £22 or €30 dependant on direction for car only, their standard crossings look quite dear for the time of year.

I guess its inevitable with the reduction in capacity and expect it will only get worse closer to Xmas.

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"to try and get an affordable deal for a trip to the UK possibly with my big trailer if there is any cheap insulation left."

I had 47 rolls delivered this week, the driver told me, they just could not get rid of it, seems no one wants to pay £1 a roll.[:D]

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Its has happened before when Stena line ceased operating to Normandie. The prices rocketed as Brittany Ferries had the monopoly for a while.

I use www.holidayferries.com [not that I go to the UK very often] but my Christmas trip has worked out quite cheap.
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Before the conspiracy/cartel theorists get too worked up, don't forget the fuel restrictions which have recently entered into force, and which effectively mean that ferries using EU ports and travelling in designated emission control areas (of which the Channel/North Sea is one) can no longer burn comparatively cheap heavy fuel oils and have to use the much more expensive distillate diesel fuels.

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Is that the return ferry price including the fuel and debit card surcharges?

Yes a good price, it often pays to book ahead, I can only make bookings a couple of days max in advance but often that brings its advantages as well.

One good thing about Norfolkline is they dont penalise long/high trailers/caravans its just one price.

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[quote user="derf"]"to try and get an affordable deal for a trip to the UK possibly with my big trailer if there is any cheap insulation left."
I had 47 rolls delivered this week, the driver told me, they just could not get rid of it, seems no one wants to pay £1 a roll.[:D]
[/quote]

Derf. I presume that you ordered it on line, how long did it take them to deliver or can you actually go into the Builder centre and order it to confirm the delivery?

I was considering paying the £2 or £3 at the sheds to know that I could get the stuff during a relatively short visit, that said I could arrive having paid for the trailer only to find no stock, so the £1 stuff if I can be sure of getting it at a certain time, even by collection is interesting.

I guess no-one wants to pay £1 a roll when it can be delivered and laid for nothing together with free cavity wall insulation by EDF even if you are not a customer of theirs and also Tesco!

Guess who recently paid out £200 for the above [:$]

Mind you I was and still am happy with the price.

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Norfolkline (now known as DFDS) is a real bargain method of getting across the Channel. They come and go every two hours like clockwork, and there is an excellent choice of eateries from basic to fairly posh. I've used them quite a lot on business, but not a great deal of use for the second-home owner in Lower Normandie ....

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Mine was delivered free the next day, that was using the online Npower link as given earlier, after using the calculator,  inputing zero for existing insulation and going for the max m2 of 99. It gives 21 rolls @100mm & 26 rolls @170mm for a total depth of 270mm.

You end up going to the "Build Centre" website to complete the order, but you can phone them instead of using their cra**y website.

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[quote user="just john "]I'm struggling to understand Brittany ferries twice the price of LD...[/quote]

Having just done my own comparison for travel next week, return the following week, LD couldn't offer the times or accommodation I needed, but for the nearest equivalent LD was all of 65p cheaper than Brittany Ferries (2 people with car and dog, cabins both ways on Brittany - but no cabins available on LD so opted for 'sleeper seats'). As it costs at least £30 in tolls and extra fuel to go to Le Havre rather than Caen I wonder which would have had my booking?

I totally agree that if you are flexible on times and book up well in advance LD Lines can be cheaper, particularly at peak times, but we usually need to book nearer the time of travel and can't vary the days of travel. And there are more important things for me with ferries than just cost. Having been quoted more in Summer to travel as a foot passenger on LD Lines than I ende dup paying to take the car on Brittany, I have more or less given up on LD Lines.

But plenty of people prefer LD Lines, so best of luck to them.

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[quote user="Will"]Before the conspiracy/cartel theorists get too worked up, don't forget the fuel restrictions which have recently entered into force, and which effectively mean that ferries using EU ports and travelling in designated emission control areas (of which the Channel/North Sea is one) can no longer burn comparatively cheap heavy fuel oils and have to use the much more expensive distillate diesel fuels.

[/quote]

This is not yet an issue for the ferry companies but could well be in a few years. 

http://www.lubmarine.com/lub/content/NT0008E51E.pdf

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Thanks for that Derf, will measure the trailer first thing [:D]

I am assuming that either there was no verification in place or your place is 100m2 and uninsulated [;-)]

I doubt that there are many uninsulated or even partially insulated places left in the UK by now, I guess the Knauf Ecose factory in Wales will have to drastically reduce production, I wonder what they will have to subsidise next year, thermal undies perhaps?

All the more reason for me to fill my boots this year!

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Cheminot - being on holiday in France I am trying to forget about work, but the Lloyd's List article is slightly misleading. Although, as it say,s the tighter limits for fuel sulphur content do not universally enter into force until 2015 and 2020, the Channel, North Sea and Baltic are all emission control areas where a 1% sulphur limit applies now - which means ship operators have to pay a premium for low sulphur heavy fuels, or use distillates. More importantly, ships are required under EU law to use 0.1% sulphur fuels in EU ports now. This effectively applies to generating set engines rather than the main propulsion engines, but even so because the normal heavy fuels and distillate fuels are not directly interchangeable, the gensets have to either burn more expensive distillates all the time - which has in turn meant costly changes to fuel pumps and associated equipment - or shipowners have had to invest in changeover equipment so that both fuels can be used. This is just one of several increases in operating costs that shipowners are having to face, so rising ferry prices are inevitable.

http://www.ukpandi.com/knowledge-developments/industry-developments/marpol-annex-vi-air-pollution/ - the text of the EU legislation is also available online.

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[quote user="Chancer"]

Is that the return ferry price including the fuel and debit card surcharges?

[/quote]

It looks like I'm going to have to come clean here.

My fare was booked through the Caravan Club site (yes, you have to be a member). You can book cars and trailers as well as caravans/motorhomes.

Depending on how many times you cross in the year you can easily recoup the annual subscription. I've never booked "late" but the C C magazine shows fixed prices so, presumably, these are also available for last minute bookings.

No fuel, credit card or debit card surchages.

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Yes I had heard that they had negotiated some good deals in the past, a friend of mine is a caravan anorak and used to organise rallies within the club, I know that for the last couple of years at least he has not been able to holiday in france with the caravan as it was going to cost £300 or so, could you have got that fare in say August? I assume that you would have had to book pretty early.

Can you give me an idea of their tariffs, car only, car and trailer/caravan?

So the price was a return trip then, well done you!![:D]

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Chancer

The earliest I could book a cheap crossing with just a car was the 15 January and the price came out at £50 return.

With a 5 metre trailer it was 29 January and that came out at £68 return..

We crossed into France on 21 August this year and came back on 2 September for £54.

I know about Camping Cheques (and ACSI) but still think the C C is cheaper for ferries.

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Well I have finally made my booking, the remaining operators are definitely in a state of flux, Norfolkline have no availability at all for trailers or caravans for at least another 2 weeks, the P&O site is so flaky that the only way you can access it is via google, if you make a mistake and want to go back a page you get lost in the ether. It is impossible to get the site in english from my computer here in France even when going to poferries.com not .fr, not a problem for me but often the prices are cheaper on the English site, for those who dont speak french it will be a problem.

I had to severely compromise my plans to get  affordable (to me) crossings, leaving 2 days later than planned and returning earlier and even then only one affordable crossing, of course they play their usual tricks, its €48 if you are returning the next day or €96 for a later return or a single trip [:(]

I am quite used to playing this game but at this time of year there would never be any problem and i would normally be spoilt for choice however the reduction of capacity from the demise of Seafrance appears to really be having an effect even at the quietest time of year, i dread to think what it is going to be like come spring or summer, lets hope that another operator will start up on the Dover Calais or even Dover boulogne route or someone takes over the Seafrance operation.

For those of you that can use the caravan club or the other offer, holiday cheque or whatever I think that you made need to move swiftly.

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I suppose Chancer it depends what your time away means to you. If I wanted to have a few extra days, I'd bite the bullet and pay. I can be a canny shopper, but it does depend.

 

And as quite a few of our journeys over the past few years have been unplanned, it doesn't feel like we have had any cheap fares for a long time.

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Pretty much all my journeys have been unplanned but with a modicum of flexibility and being willing to travel during the night if need be I have never paid over £25 for the car only, with the trailer usually double that these days but never more, even when returning to France with zero notice in August I still sneaked on a night boat for under £20.

The problem this time is I need to return by a certain date and hence want  to go sooner than later, actually on reflection and looking at the notes i made I have cut my nose off, i am travelling at 20.35 on one day but could have gone at 01.20 the day before for only €13 more [:(]

Too late now its booked but I repeat if things are that tight in December we are surely going to pay the price when it gets truly busy [:(]

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[quote user="Will"]Cheminot - being on holiday in France I am trying to forget about work, but the Lloyd's List article is slightly misleading. Although, as it say,s the tighter limits for fuel sulphur content do not universally enter into force until 2015 and 2020, the Channel, North Sea and Baltic are all emission control areas where a 1% sulphur limit applies now - which means ship operators have to pay a premium for low sulphur heavy fuels, or use distillates. More importantly, ships are required under EU law to use 0.1% sulphur fuels in EU ports now. This effectively applies to generating set engines rather than the main propulsion engines, but even so because the normal heavy fuels and distillate fuels are not directly interchangeable, the gensets have to either burn more expensive distillates all the time - which has in turn meant costly changes to fuel pumps and associated equipment - or shipowners have had to invest in changeover equipment so that both fuels can be used. This is just one of several increases in operating costs that shipowners are having to face, so rising ferry prices are inevitable.

http://www.ukpandi.com/knowledge-developments/industry-developments/marpol-annex-vi-air-pollution/ - the text of the EU legislation is also available online.

[/quote]

It is several years since I was an engineer on the cross channel ferries. Ignoring shaft driven generators, all the ships in the fleet used distillate fuel for gensets. Principally because the sets were running for comparatively short periods which does not suit residual fuel engines but all the ships were able to run thier main engines on both heavy and distillate fuels and were equipped to allow a quick changeover. Whether that is still the case with the modern ferries I do not know.

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