Re: Dartford Crossing and New Payment System:

[Gluestick]

Just a short advisory.

I established a pre-payment account on Saturday and then, suddenly, had to drive to la belle on Tuesday.

As is invariably the case, since the whole process is now online, the UK government have made a fist of explaining, simply and cogently, how the new system actually works!

Post signing, one receives a "Welcome Pack": which simply goes on and on about Dart Tags; (The old system was similar to the French Péage system of a transponder.).

Eventually, after trawling umpteen government websites and thereafter, sitting on the phone to the advice line (premium rate number!) for ten minutes I did eventually, manage to speak to some girlie. I explained the welcome pack simply banged on about the new Dart Tag, which I don't have, therefore how do I pay?

Since non-payers will be later prosecuted, I had already worked out they must be using ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition).

Conclusion: if you have a pre-payment account, then the ANPR system picks up your crossing and deducts the appropriate sum: in theory!

One cynical comment: as there are increasing numbers of cases of people fighting the London Congestion Charge non-payment summonses, due to cloned number plates, the situation at Dartford will become rather interesting, I believe!

[:D]

[woolybanana]

And foreign number plates?

[Pierre ZFP]

My wife contacted them about this as I have a Luxembourg registered car.

They had no clue

Later, my number plate could be registered on their website but since the structure and layout of the charaters is nothing like UK plates I will be amazed if I am charged but at least I tried. I'll find out when I go back next week.

How is it going to work with Frnch and Italian style numbers?  They are in the same series and style except for dashes between blocks.  How will they send bills for those?

[Pickles]

[quote user="Gluestick"]Just a short advisory.

I established a pre-payment account on Saturday and then, suddenly, had to drive to la belle on Tuesday.

As is invariably the case, since the whole process is now online, the UK government have made a fist of explaining, simply and cogently, how the new system actually works!

Post signing, one receives a "Welcome Pack": which simply goes on and on about Dart Tags; (The old system was similar to the French Péage system of a transponder.).

Eventually, after trawling umpteen government websites and thereafter, sitting on the phone to the advice line (premium rate number!) for ten minutes I did eventually, manage to speak to some girlie. I explained the welcome pack simply banged on about the new Dart Tag, which I don't have, therefore how do I pay?

Since non-payers will be later prosecuted, I had already worked out they must be using ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition).

Conclusion: if you have a pre-payment account, then the ANPR system picks up your crossing and deducts the appropriate sum: in theory!

One cynical comment: as there are increasing numbers of cases of people fighting the London Congestion Charge non-payment summonses, due to cloned number plates, the situation at Dartford will become rather interesting, I believe!

[:D][/quote]

We set up an account late in November when the system allowed. We drove over on Sunday and when I checked the account, the crossing had been logged and deducted from my £10 initial deposit.

The system allows for the logging of any registration number, UK or foreign. You can add the details of a foreign-registered vehicle to a prepay account.

 

[Pickles]

[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]

My wife contacted them about this as I have a Luxembourg registered car.

They had no clue

Later, my number plate could be registered on their website but since the structure and layout of the charaters is nothing like UK plates I will be amazed if I am charged but at least I tried. I'll find out when I go back next week.

How is it going to work with Frnch and Italian style numbers?  They are in the same series and style except for dashes between blocks.  How will they send bills for those?

[/quote]

My understanding is that they use ANPR and that this will automatically recognise the vast majority of the plates of the vehicles using the crossing. Those that aren't recognised are viewed manually, and I suspect that all non-payers will be viewed manually if they don't correspond to a UK vehicle.

[Pickles]

Incidentally, for those wishing to set up an account without wading through the acres of junk, go to:

https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

[Chancer]

Chancers Charter says:

Its free for drivers of foreign registered vehicles.

Their statements on the subject are contrary to the above, not as concise and have the intent to scare and make you believe the opposite. In simple terms to ensure compliance.

A caveat for those who permanantly reside in the UK with a foreign registered vehicle, who work in central London and dont pay the  congestion charge and who will now pass free through the Dartford crossings, rip the proverbial out of it for long enough and your vehicle will probably be towed away, they wont be able to enforce any of the penalties but will likely use the penalties for not re-registering a vehicle.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Chancer"]Chancers Charter says:

Its free for drivers of foreign registered vehicles.

Their statements on the subject are contrary to the above, not as concise and have the intent to scare and make you believe the opposite. In simple terms to ensure compliance.

A caveat for those who permanantly reside in the UK with a foreign registered vehicle, who work in central London and dont pay the  congestion charge and who will now pass free through the Dartford crossings, rip the proverbial out of it for long enough and your vehicle will probably be towed away, they wont be able to enforce any of the penalties but will likely use the penalties for not re-registering a vehicle.[/quote]

They reckon that they will use the same debt collection agency/process that has been used "so successfully" for collecting the central London congestion charge from foreign-registered vehicles. I haven't a clue how "successful" they have been. Since we didn't sign up for free exchange of registration details (or did we eventually, despite saying that we didn't?), I have a sneaking suspicion that Chancer is right, again.

[dwmcn]

Pickles,

We paid for a crossing, GB to France and back, online and printed the receipt. We will see if it works on Tuesday.

David

[Chancer]

[quote user="Pickles"]

They reckon that they will use the same debt collection agency/process that has been used "so successfully" for collecting the central London congestion charge from foreign-registered vehicles. I haven't a clue how "successful" they have been. Since we didn't sign up for free exchange of registration details (or did we eventually, despite saying that we didn't?), I have a sneaking suspicion that Chancer is right, again.[/quote]

 

If success is measured in the degree of compliance created by their misinformation which is then repeated ad infinitum across the web by well meaning souls then the fephemeral collection agency has been hugely successfull.

TFL were my customers before coming to France, I recall discussing the congestion charge, traffic light and bus lane camera penalty charges for foreign vehicles with them at the time, the guy was a good friend of mine and right at the top, he had also worked in Northern France for more than 20 years, he told me that the fines (which arent, more later) would be enforced by Europarking and vehicles would be towed away and impounded.

He has since visited me here and admitted that it was the party line but untrue in as much as they had no jurisdiction overseas, would have to have won their case in a French tribunal before being able to instruct huissiers or fourrières and in any case they could not even get the détails of the vehicle owner to do so were they minded to.

"Penalties" for parking, speed cameras, non payment of tolls or congestion charges are not fines, they are an invitation to pay to avoid a "potential" court case which could end up with a fine being levied, as such they are not enforceable even if they do find their way to, especially in another country.

They have saved a fortune in wages with the new system, compliance (the key word) will be high especailly amongst UK drivers, the so called losses for non complaint drivers of foreign vehicles they will never publish, they will be high but as a percentage next to nothing compared to the wage savings they will make.

In this case at least I prefer the French system of creating employment.

[EuroTrash]

+1

[PaulT]

Now, when it comes to the Dartford Crossing it may be easier for French vehicles to be traced - SANEF are running it.

[NickP]

What do you know? Next thing the self styled integrated Brits will be complaining about other Brits driving cars in France with British Number plates, and not paying parking and speed camera fines.[:D][:D]

[AnOther]

The fact that you can register a foreign plate gives them a convenient override for ANPR plus any claims that it can accurately recognise them [;-)]

Also the pay site invites you to enter your number and and give an email address for communication so again overriding ANPR and getting your details by your own hand.

We need to hear from somebody who has stuck two finger up to the system to know for sure whether it does work as claimed or not.

Any volunteers ?

[Chancer]

I will happily do so, I'll even make a special journey next time I'm in the UK.

Nick P. Great sense of humour [:D]

I'm sure it wont be long coming, perhaps I should post a picture of my garage wall that is wallpapered with pay and display penalty notices [6]

I dont have any speed camera fines though as I dont drive fast enough and they dont have the rego détails to send them if they did.

Actually that is not true, I did get one from Belgium inviting me to contribute to their coffers  which I declined, they do share regsitration data with France but I know the UK doesnt as I now I think of it I have already been the guinea pig for testing the M20/M25/M23 average speed cameras, as outside of those sections I am the slowest guy on the road I dont slow down in them unless conditions and prudence dictates, I'm probably 5 or 10 mph faster than the other vehicles so reckon my number must have been taken a score of times yet never recieved a ticket.

[dwmcn]

Chancer,

And now that they have got rid of the people working in the toll booths, they have upped the return charge from £4 to £5.

David

[Pickles]

[quote user="dwmcn"]

Chancer,

And now that they have got rid of the people working in the toll booths, they have upped the return charge from £4 to £5.

David

[/quote]

£3.34 if you have a prepay account, but still an increase.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Chancer"]I have already been the guinea pig for testing the M20/M25/M23 average speed cameras, as outside of those sections I am the slowest guy on the road I dont slow down in them unless conditions and prudence dictates, I'm probably 5 or 10 mph faster than the other vehicles so reckon my number must have been taken a score of times yet never recieved a ticket.[/quote]

If I had only known you at the time.............

When speed cameras working on the original Gatso principle (I have never ever forgiven Maurice Gatsonides for this!), had a flash and roll film, I worked out a neat counter.

Using a high intensity photographic Xenon Tube and a secondary flash detector switch mounted just above the rear number plate (as used in studios for extra background light), the Xenon would trigger when the Gatso's shutter was open and the intense light make the index plate unreadable!

Couldn't find a guinea pig, prepared to give it a go!

[6]

[Pickles]

[quote user="Chancer"]I know the UK doesnt as I now I think of it I have already been the guinea pig for testing the M20/M25/M23 average speed cameras, as outside of those sections I am the slowest guy on the road I dont slow down in them unless conditions and prudence dictates, I'm probably 5 or 10 mph faster than the other vehicles so reckon my number must have been taken a score of times yet never recieved a ticket.[/quote]

Mind you, until fairly recently, apparently, the M25 average speed cameras weren't working and hadn't worked since their introduction. There was a report in Autoexpress and elsewhere saying that the variable limit enforcement cameras were to be switched on in autumn 2014, but again, apparently, these do not enforce the 70 mph limit when the variable limit signs are switched off.

[Department71]

Often wondered if those big yellow triffids on the motorways etc can read a number plate at night when the cars lights are on dip or main.

[dwmcn]

Pickles,

Of course you can entirely avoid the charge by going around the M25 in the other direction or by driving through London and going across another bridge.

David

[CSV]

The AA says;

"Free-flow charging may eliminate toll-booth queues and reduce

congestion in the short term but most users have no choice about the

time and place they cross the Thames. This is one of the most important

motorways in Europe and it needs more capacity, not easier ways to pay."

[:)]

[AnOther]

This made me chuckle !

[url]http://www.kentonline.co.uk/dartford/news/extra-chance-for-dart-charge-28245/[/url]

[Chancer]

The comments that I read were interesting.

One seems to think that those who already know how to work the system, who live on benefits and get a free new car every 2 years because they are obese, sorry I meant disabled are exempt from the crossing charge.

Another says that he has used the crossing 9 times and only been charged once. Presumably a Dart-tag user.

Although he will probably now get £560 of penalty notices.

I havnt had a Dart-tag since around 1992, are the newest ones capable of being read on a drive past or does the ANPR system just deduct the money from the account allocated to the vehicle registration.

Finally why didnt the ex employees block the road for 2 years burning pallets and foreign lorrys?

They could at least have kidnapped the boss, dynamited the bridge and the tunnel etc, they really are letting the side down and  Sanef the new owners must be very confused by the inaction.

[richard51]

It seems that there are people on here who can play the system very well - from motoring offences to washing machine insurance fraud.

There are lots of disabled people who rely on their car for a decent quality of life. Shame on you.