TRESPASS

[belu]

We purchased a house with a lot of land (almost 3 acres) 5 years ago in Brittany.  After a lot of hard work we, and several close friends, have finished renovating the property and for the past year have tackled the garden, landscaping the back and installing a small swimming pool.  We are now in the process of laying a new lawn at the front, landscaping beds and having a new driveway put in. However, during a visit to our house one weekend last summer we were horrified to witness about 15 cars entering our property and parking on our front garden – apparently visitors to the summer fayre have used our land for years as overspill parking.  Although we asked several of them to leave because they were a little too close to our house for comfort, the majority stayed (flatly refusing to move).  After the event we visited the Mairie – he explained that people who have visited the fayre and other events for many years (there were several hundred extra visitors to the town) would probably continue to use our land as a car park. 

 

As a result, at the end of the summer, we installed a temporary (padlocked) metal gate marked “propriété privée”.  We have now been informed by a neighbour that the gate has been opened and the sign thrown on the ground and that several cars visiting local events and art galleries are continuing to park on our property.  The Mairie just shrugs his shoulders when we tackle him about it (we suspect he is condoning this arrangement).  Last week we had several hundred pounds worth of trees and shrubs delivered but we are loath to plant them as we do not know if they will be destroyed by these cars.  Is there anything we can do to stop this trespass especially as we are only at the house intermittently?

 

Had it been on a piece of land out of sight of our house we might have allowed the arrangement to continue, but the area is directly in front of our house and the cars have churned up large areas of our new grass.

[ams]

A very difficult situation. I see several possible approaches.

1. Seek legal advice from a local solicitor and follow the advice.

 

2. Try to make some accomodation with the Mairie, perhaps giving him/her the keys to the entry gate, thus putting the onus upon him to take some responsibility for your property.

 

3. Plant trees, shrubs over the area used by the cars, do it gradualy over a period of time reducing the space used by the cars.

 

4. Find out in advance the time that you expect the cars to appear, make sure your children are playing football in the area used by the cars, they make great goal posts.

 

ams

 

[Val_2]

Just a small question which may sound daft but is it actually your property without some sort of servitude placed upon it from years before which does happen in France. If that is the case and your notaire should be able to confirm this then I am afraid you have to accept what is happening. I think also you are being used as you are not local and its only a holiday home which some people here in Brittany tend to do especially in an area overrun by brits and for whom they have little or no respect.

[cooperlola]

Over here, if people have used a facility for years, it's difficult to persuade them that they suddenly cannot do so.  Certainly, I would take the others' advice and speak to a legal expert.

If you have a lot of land, is there a way you can reach a compromise and offer them part of your property which is not so intrusive to you, instead?  My own experience (not with this particular problem, I'll admit) is that if you offer a solution which suits everybody, rather than just saying "non", you tend to get a better response.

[inkflo]

Have you thought about getting someone to stand at the gate & charging for the parking?

Might put a lot of people off if they have to pay, & might help towards putting you lawn right!

[Russethouse]

I'd be very careful, as its a holiday home the last thing you want to do is build up any ill will, I'd try really hard to find a compromise. Is the area they are parking on grass ?

 

[Will]

Attitudes are different in France. It's not 'your' land, you are merely having the use of it and looking after it for the greater good of all of France. [:D]

[Val_2]

Thats very true Will. An elderly lady told us years ago that we are all merely caretakers of property here in France to tend and maintain for the next users.

[Hoddy]

I think Will is right, attitudes are different. The first time I saw this was when we had some sort of motor race pass by which had to negotiate a difficult bend near my neighbours. Lots of cars turned up and parked on Madame's field without asking. When I explained that in the UK we would have probably put up a fence and charged them she was mystified.

Hoddy

[Panda]

One of my neighbours fields is often full of hunt vans in the season, it's a holiday home so no one takes any notice of the private property signs.  She is anti-hunt in general  so I've never told her that the  mounted hunt also go racing through her land at will on occasion! 

I think they used to do the same with mine (park the vans) but as I'm here all the time and have fenced the only accessible place from the lane the first time they turned up they all parked at the bottom of the drive scratching their heads, I went out and was going to speak to them but they all drove off and have not returned.  I think if you were a permanent resident they wouldn't do it, I love the put up a per car charge advice, that would work around here I'm sure of it! 

[Russethouse]

What concerns me is that you would charge or fence the area off and then find that one day your windows were broken or other damage done.

Sorry if it sounds gloomy  - I guess it depends what the local attitude to incomers is

[LEO]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

What concerns me is that you would charge or fence the area off and then find that one day your windows were broken or other damage done.

Sorry if it sounds gloomy  - I guess it depends what the local attitude to incomers is

[/quote]

 

So much for the friendly French!

 I often see posts when people talk of their "wonderful " French neighbours.

Couldn't these "wonderful neighbours "help  

[Russethouse]

Some French neighbours are wonderful, but the OP lives in Brittany where there are pockets of ill will toward incomers; Brits and others.

[belu]

Thanks all for your helpful (and amusing) advice. 

Yes, we do own all of the land and there is no servitude on it - our notaire has checked this. 

Not wishing to go into too much (boring) detail - we have come to many compromises with our neighbours (all on our part) from allowing them to graze their horses (we have a legal agreement so they cannot claim any rights over the land) to giving them a 2 metre strip right at the far edge of our land to extend their driveway.  The sentiment that we are just looking after the land doesn't seem to work both ways - when our electrician/septic tank installers came to do a survey they were refused permission to "stand" on a strip of land which was owned by our next door neighbours!!  In fact he stood on this very strip for over 2 hours watching every move just in case they came back!

Returning to your suggestions, we could not accommodate a parking area as most of the "unobstrusive" land is at the back of the property and in order to access it they would have to cross newly laid lawns/borders/driveway (we saved hard to afford this (10,000 euros) and we would be devastated if they were ruined).  There is only one access point to our property (there being fairly wide ditches all around) so all these cars would have to use our driveway and pass right in front of our house. One idea would be to extend the ditch, effectively making a "moat" and installing a drawbridge!!!  I will let you know how we get on once we have installed the NCP sign!  Thanks again everyone.

[Tony F Dordogne]

I got the impression that your gate was a temporary affair.  Can't you have a proper access gate installed and lock it when you leave?  I'd also toddle along to your local gendarmerie office and have a word with the chef de bureau to see whether they can help.  And if you're there when the 'visitors' arrive lock the gates behind them and wait for the G men to arrive.

[Alex H]

Buy a tatty old van, the larger the better and park it in the access when you are not in residence [:D]

[Chancer]

A wheelclamp worked well for me, I had been threatening to use it for a long time to no avail so I used it one time only.

It was amazing how fast and far the word travelled[6]

[Hoddy]

Without knowing the lie of the land -

you could consider one of stingers the police use - strategically placed and generous amounts of grass seed sprinkled around.

Hoddy

[Clair]

[quote user="Hoddy"]Without knowing the lie of the land -

you could consider one of stingers the police use - strategically placed and generous amounts of grass seed sprinkled around.

Hoddy[/quote]

now that, I like very much... [:-))]

[Georgina]

If you are not bothered about being popular, get some large boulders, make them heavy.

Just today, I had another two dogs in my garden whilst the owner casually strolled down the street.  She seems to think as she has done this all her life then it is okay for them to drop one in my garden every day.  It's the mentality of some I am afraid though thankfully not all.

Georgina

[Frederick]

I think a row of bollards .....you can do it yourself ... I would be looking for a few lengthts of  4 inch box section steel . Dig post holes and concrete them in flush with the ground   ( Cap off the end in the ground ) and put a small  frame round the top  that you can fill with small gravel...Then get box section that will slide down inside  the one set in the ground that would stick up and act as a bollard ....Drill through both inner and outer  posts when you have chosen the desired height .... put a  bolt through with the nuts on that you need a socket to get off like the car  locking wheel nut ones  down in the frame  recess just below ground  level  ...Gravel over the bolts which have been well greased ... put them out of sight .. Unless the parkers  arrive with a petrol driven disc cutter in the boot of their cars....snookered ! They will have a hell of a job to pull them  out  ...you can even get plastic caps for box section steel to make it look smart and keep the water out.. painted black  ...job done !..... cost you about 50 quid to do the job..... cheaper if you go to your local scrap merchants for the steel  !  I would not put up with that nonsense ....

 

[Framboise]

My Dad had similar problems in UK with a neighbour who thought it was his "Right" to tell his friends to park on or across the neighbour's driveways when he had one of his garden parties.   Bearing in mind this person had no friends nor allies around him because of his attitude, this did not make for good relations so when for the umpteenth time Dad asked a couple to not park in his driveway because he needed the access he was laughed off, then he took matters into his own hands.   Out came the ladders and jet wash to which he then proceeded to blast all the muck off the roof tiles and the gutters down on top of the cabriolet parked squarely on his drive, smatterring it with a year's worth of slime and leaf mould into the car itself as they had left the roof down.    What could they say?  They had parked it illegally as well as irresponsibly on someone else's property, but strangely enough the thoughtless neighbour changed his attitude to the rest of the road after this incident and told his chums to not use other folk's gardens as their personal parking spots.   He is still odious though - can't change that!

 

 

 

[belu]

Thank you Frederick, fab idea - shall certainly try this out especially as cost so reasonable.  Hopefully it will do the trick and we can grow plants up them!!

Also very much appreciate everyone else's suggestions and we shall certainly speak to the local police should such a situation occur again this summer especially as, I would assume, they caused criminal damage by removing and breaking our gate.  Would love to know where you can buy a stinger!!

[Frederick]

I hope it worls for you....dont know about growing flowers up them .... you will need to pull the bolt out and slide the post out  to drive in when you arrive !

[Clair]

You couls also put up some "Propriété Privée" signs. They're available form most brico shops.

Some of THESE might act as a deterrent.