how to sell mortgaged barn

[woody234]

I have 3 years left on my credit agricole mortgage on the house and land which includes a barn, someone wants to buy the barn so how do I go about selling the barn ie  I need to contact a notaire who will need the deeds, I have copy of the deeds but are the real deeds keeped at the bank because of the mortgage, does the notaire borrow the deeds from the bank then change the deeds  then give deeds back to the bank

[cooperlola]

I don't know the precise answer to your question, Woody, but when we bought our house, the sellers had a mortgage.  I do remember that he arranged to pay the bank the outstanding amount, and that the sellers were given a cheque for the remaining amount at the final signing of the contracts.  So I would assume that notaires are well used to dealing with this situation and will, indeed sort things out for you.

[Anton Redman]

There is a land registry and a mortgage registry in France. From memory the latter is called the Bureau de Hypothiques. So for the most part it is all own to checking records like the UK

If the proceeeds net of tax or more than the outstanding mortgauge and you are content for CA to to grab all their money before possibly charging you an early redemption penalty then the notaire will handle it. Otherwise you need to speak to CA first to agree how much money if any they want back because of the reduce security and if their is any early repaymeny penalty.

Sorry if that looks very grumpy been carrying render all day and feel like my wrists are now below my ankles

[woody234]

thankyou for replys

[Ron Avery]

As its not your principal residence you will also pay CGT on the sale.

[woolybananasbrother]

Which can be very little, depending how long you have owned the property and how much you manage to write off, and how cooperative your notaire is.

[P-D de Rouffignac]

If the barn is part of your "résidence principale" in my view it could be sold without paying CGT. I did this recently selling part - a surplus car parking area - of my principal home in France. If your barn is listed in the deeds as part of the "property" you originally purchased, as a principal residence, this rule should apply. Copies of the deeds, such as the one the notaire sends you some months after completion, are available to the notaire, who can also obtain them from the land registry, or he/she will simply work from your copy, or even a copy of your copy. In the case of my car parking space, I loaned my copy of the deeds to the notaire who photocopied the relevant section, and I now have an "attestation" declaring that this part of the property is now sold and registered with the new owner. If I were to sell the rest of my home, a future purchaser would know exactly what they were buying.

Hope this helps,

Peter-Danton de Rouffignac www.francemediterraneanproperty.com  

[Ron Avery]

Well you didn't pay CGT Peter,  a friend just has.  She sold a detached  barn and lake and paid CGT on the sale.

If a Notaire decides to play ducks and drakes with the law fine, he is the one accountable at a later stage, but the OP should be aware that if selling a detached barn which is part of his property he will be liable for CGT.

[P-D de Rouffignac]

I would still urge the seller to double-check with a notaire. As I understand it, under article 150 U II 1 and 3 of the CGI (tax code), "dépendances" are included in the rules re exoneration from CGT relating to the owner's main and principal home. "Dépendances" include land, buildings, parking etc - even if they were acquired at different dates, provided the owner can establish that they were purchased to accommodate a growing family (so an added gite might not count, for example). The law generally deals with a sale of the whole property in one lot, at one time, but even buildings in course of construction can be exempt, provided again you can prove they were destined for your occupation. So as I say, I think it is worth taking professional advice (for which this post is not a substitute) just to clarify the particular situation.

Regarding Mr Avery's remarks about notaires "playing ducks and drakes with the law", I would merely point out that the firm I regularly use has been established 50 years and has five partners and a further dozen highly experienced back-up staff.

P-D de Rouffignac M.A  LL.M

[mickleover]

[quote user="woody234"]I have 3 years left on my credit agricole mortgage on the house and land which includes a barn, someone wants to buy the barn so how do I go about selling the barn ie  I need to contact a notaire who will need the deeds, I have copy of the deeds but are the real deeds keeped at the bank because of the mortgage, does the notaire borrow the deeds from the bank then change the deeds  then give deeds back to the bank[/quote]

His your buyer going to live in it ,after turning it into a home.

[AnOther]

Our seller had an outstanding mortgage and at the signing the Notaire gave her a cheque for the balance although I don't know the precise details of what went on before that, it was not my business of course.

On the CGT front my neighbour sold his Gite which he had initialy lived in whilst renovating the main house and according to the Notaire who handled the deal, under those circumstances there was no CGT to pay.