mieux and meilleur

[Patf]

Is there a rule about which of these words to use for "better"? I was looking up the word for when I go back to the dentist and tell him the tooth he treated feels better. It said "il va mieux." Then there were lots of other examples, some with " meilleur". Can someone explain? Pat.

[Christine Animal]

This is a difficult one.  What a shame Vraititi is in Honfleur.

When you go back to the dentist you could say "c'est beaucoup mieux", much better.

Generally, mieux is better and meilleur is best.

Best in class, meilleur de la classe.

Perhaps your tooth is better because he is the "meilleur dentiste", best dentist.

But it seems to me that sometimes it is said, it is "meilleur que les autres", better than the others.  Now I'm confused Pat, will have to try to look it up.  Hope Vraititi's back soon!

I edit I've just looked in the dictionary and am even more lost, it seems both can be used for both, depending on the sense and if it is an adjective, an adverb or a noun.  I only know by hearing and speaking, but can't explain gramatically.

"C'est pour le mieux" means it's for the best.  But you marry "pour le meilleur et pour le pire".

Is there anyone out there who can help till Vraititi gets back 

[bizzyliz]

I am sure I can't explain as well as Vraititi, but basically meilleur is an adjective (therefore used with nouns) and mieux is an adverb (used with verbs). So meilleur and mieux both mean better, and le meilleur and le mieux both mean the best.

For example you would say 'Ce livre est meilleur que les autres' (because livre is a noun), but you would say 'Elle chante mieux que les autres' (because chante is a verb).

Hope that helps!

[Christine Animal]

Yes, Liz, I think you've got it.

But what about, c'est mieux qu'hier, or il fait meilleur qu'hier?

[YCCMB]

A really useful little book (and quite readable for a grammar book) is:

Speaking Better French, by Monique Jackman (ISBN 1-84285-020-2)

which I've found to be an enormous help (I teach business French in the UK) in explaining some of these odd little grammar points to students. It also explains stuff like when to use "jour" and "journee", "an" and "annee) (sorry for lack of accents, I can't be bothered!) and when and when not to sound the "s" on the end of "plus" - as just a few examples of questions I've regularly been asked.

On closer inspection, I've just realised it doesn't do "mieux" and "meilleur" so now feel a bit silly, but the former is the "comparatif de superiorite" of "bien" and the latter is the same thing for "bon"

.............I'll get me coat

Jane

[bizzyliz]

Yes, Christine, it's confusing! 'C'est mieux qu'hier' makes sense because 'est' is a verb, but 'Il fait meilleur qu'hier'........? That doesn't follow the rule. As you said, we need Vraititi.

I haven't heard of 'Speaking Better French' before. Will have a look for that one.

[bizzyliz]

Could it be because 'Il fait meilleur qu'hier' is actually short for 'Il fait meilleur temps qu'hier'?

[Christine Animal]

I don't know Liz...  I've taken my coat and my hat!  C'est peut-être mieux 

[Loiseau]

At school we had to chant in class:

bon - meilleur - le meilleur
bien - mieux - le mieux
mauvais - pire - le pire
mal - pis - le pis  (I think that's right)

That 1940s technique must have worked, 'cos I can still trot them out!

Angela

[Fantine<br><br><br><br>Susie]

[quote]A really useful little book (and quite readable for a grammar book) is: Speaking Better French, by Monique Jackman (ISBN 1-84285-020-2) which I've found to be an enormous help (I teach business Fren...[/quote]

I also have this book and would thoroughly recommend it - do try and get it if you can.

[Ciel Bleu]

Several years ago I took an evening class called France Extra - I've just found the book and looked things up.

Under the heading 'Comparatives and superlatives' this is what it says:

bon - meilleur

Jean-Paul? C'est un bon danseur.

Juliette est une meilleure danseuse.

Ils sont les meilleurs danseurs du groupe.

bien-mieux

Il danse tres bien.

Elle danse mieux que lui.

Ils dansent le mieux de nous tous.

If I've interpretted things correctly, this is how I understand it:

Bon, meilleur, les meilleurs (good, better, the best) are all adjectives.

Bien, mieux, le mieux (well, better, the best) are all adverbs.

Hope this helps a bit.

Anne (99)

 

[Christine Animal]

Doesn't this confirm what Liz said yesterday?  So, also confirming what she said about "il fait meilleur qu'hier" is "meilleur temps".

Bravo you two, now we just have to wait and see what the "grand maître" says when he gets back...

[Patf]

Thanks to all - I think I've got the hang of it now. Mieux is an adverb and meilleur an adjective, so just need to remember to put it into practise. Interesting too what Angela wrote about equivalent versions of mal and mauvais. So french is a logical language? Pat.