Future and Future Perfect forms of the subjunctive

[EuroStar]

Can anyone tell me whether or not the subjunctive exists in the Future and/or Future Perfect forms in French. If they do exist can someone tell me how it is formed?

[lizbeth]

No, there are no future forms of the subjunctive. You can use the present subjunctive instead.

[SaligoBay]

Eurostar, please don't get bogged down with the subjunctive, unless you need it for exams or some such thing.

In everyday life you'll only ever use the present tense, and if you know any others, French people will be so flabbergasted they'll forget to pass you the wine, they'll need it themselves!

 

[Opalienne]

There are only the present and the imperfect forms of the subjunctive.  Using the imperfect is a sign that you are very, very highly educated (some might say a bit snobby).   So don't worry about it, as SB says!

[Christine Animal]

Here they confirm (at the bottom of the page) that there is no future subjunctive (quite an interesting site) :

http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa111799.htm

 

[EuroStar]

I didn't think the form existed.

[EuroStar]

I see what you mean and will probably stick to the present tense.

[Sfgraveston]

The subjnuctive also exists in the  Pluperfect form although only used in literrature.

I do not think it is snobby to use the subjuctive and to restrict oneself to the present is absurd.  To claim that the French will be stunned if you use anything but the present is, in my experience, absolutely wrong. We should all be trying to raise the level of our language as high as possible and being satisfied with only one tense is a disappointing lack of linguistic ambition.

Stuart

[Beryl]

I  would be be happy to master the present indicative, imperfect indicative, passé simple, future and conditional as that will fit every situation I can think of!

[Tourangelle]

You need the subjunctive much more than the passé simple, which is never used in speech, unless you are De Gaulle!  It is in the nature of the subjuctive that there can't be a future, because it indicates uncertainty.  If you think that is complicated, consider that we don't actually have a future tense in English!!

[Dick Smith]

Do you think we might have one, one day?

[Sfgraveston]

[quote user="beryl"]

I  would be be happy to master the present indicative, imperfect indicative, passé simple, future and conditional as that will fit every situation I can think of!

[/quote]

You need the subjunctive for the following (as very basic everyday examples)

Je pense que nous allions à Paris la semaine prochaine.

Il faut que vous mangiez des légumes.

C'est la dame la plus stupide que j'aie jamais rencontrée

Quel que soit le prix, je l'acheterai.

There are many more quite everyday instances where the subjuntive is needed. The trick is to learn a few instances where the subjunctive is needed - use them and then gradually build on them. For example start with "il faut que....." Do not expect to get it right all the time as you will almost certainly be understood - however do have the ambition to master the subjunctive.

As has been remarked - forget the passé simple. It is very rarely used in speech apart from the expression " ce fut".

We all have areas of a foreign language that we struggle with - mine is the difference betwee "il est" and "c'est".

Stuart

[Ron Avery]

I think Beryl meant the passé composé, not the passé simple. 

The passé simple is the literary equivalent of the passé composé, which means that it is only normally written, normally in formal or historic writing.  You do have to recognise it when it is written though[:)]

[Beryl]

Yes, you are right Ron, I did mean that one [:)]

As you can see I  have enough to contend with - the subjunctive will just have to amuse it self until I can cope with it [Www]

 

[Tourangelle]

The subjunctive isn't that hard, it is often the same  as the present, or if it looks different is pronounced the same, like il faut que j'aie.. is like j'ai.  The only ones you really need to use that are very different are savoir, vouloir faire and aller, so it is not too bad. 

Got to disagree with Ron though, as in history they often use the present, so the past historic is even more useless than suggested[:)]

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Sfgraveston"]The subjnuctive also exists in the  Pluperfect form although only used in literrature.

I do not think it is snobby to use the subjuctive and to restrict oneself to the present is absurd.  To claim that the French will be stunned if you use anything but the present is, in my experience, absolutely wrong. We should all be trying to raise the level of our language as high as possible and being satisfied with only one tense is a disappointing lack of linguistic ambition.

Stuart

[/quote]

Perhaps, Stuart, but not everyone is driven by linguistic ambition!   For most people, the priority is communication with other ordinary human beings.

In six years here, I have NEVER heard anyone use the imperfect subjunctive in everyday speech.  Que je fusse, que je donnasse, que vous eussiez........ yep, I came to France with all that in my head, and it's been as useless as a very useless thing.

The present subjunctive, par contre, is in regular, everyday use.

And yes, I do get comments if I use apparently "learned" constructions like de laquelle or duquel.  For some reason it surprises people.

[Tourangelle]

and être, I can't believe I forgot être.

People use the passé composé of the subjunctive quite a lot, I don't think it would raise any eyebrows at all, but I agree that the imperfect isn't used very much. 

The French sometimes get the subjunctive wrong, though, listen out for après que, they are always putting in the subjunctive after, but it must be the indicative. [:P]

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Tourangelle"]People use the passé composé of the subjunctive quite a lot, I don't think it would raise any eyebrows at all, but I agree that the imperfect isn't used very much. 
[/quote]

Yes, I'm getting very slack!  I was thinking about "je suis contente que tu sois venu" as being present, because "je suis" is present.  Lack of intellectual input, that's what does it!   Even then, it does sound rather formal, and people I know would be more likely to use a different construction, like "je suis contente de te voir".

Where do you meet the people who CARE about these things?   My literary level in French has plummeted since being here.

 

[Tourangelle]

[quote user="SaligoBay"]

Where do you meet the people who CARE about these things?   My literary level in French has plummeted since being here.

 

[/quote]

Linguists, even ones who specialise in English can be really pedantic, so it's not so much that they care, as like a good argument, so I know a few of them.  French French teachers, too.

Plus, I irritate OH by correcting his French, but only when I am very sure oh how the tables have turned [6]

[embryman]

These are useful examples and can serve as a template.  But I believe that verbs like penser, croire only take a subjunctive when they are in the negatuve - i.e 'Je crois que c'est vrai' but 'Je ne crois pas que ce soit vrai'.  Stuart's example would then be 'Je pense que nous allons a Paris'.  I'm beginning to doubt whether I've remembered this bit of grammar correctly as my neighbour always corrects my subjunctive in this kind of construction. 

Hey, am I pedantic or what?

 

Stewart

[La Vette]

[quote user="EuroStar"]I see what you mean and will probably stick to the present tense.
[/quote]

I find the past tense is as important as the present.  You need to be able to say what you did, where you went, where you lived etc etc.

[hastobe]

[quote user="Tourangelle"]You need the subjunctive much more than the passé simple, which is never used in speech, unless you are De Gaulle! 

[/quote]

I like to read french novels - where the knowing past historic is pretty fundamental!

As I understand it the subjunctive isn't a 'tense' per se - but rather conveys mood / feeling e.g. I believe that, I am afraid that, I am worried that etc..... And the imperfect subjuctive is a bit like quoting from the bible - a little posh and up one's self. 

Kathie

[Cassis]

How come this got resurrected from the deep past (tense)?  Good grief, before today it was last posted in April !

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Cassis"]How come this got resurrected from the deep past

(tense)?  Good grief, before today it was last posted in April !

[/quote]

Presumably it was felt necessary that it were brought back into the

realms of the present subjunctive as otherwise the whole thing was

getting a bit historic, or something.

Stewert - I think that you are right: after "je pense que..." aller

would take the indicative, not the subjunctive. Though, I have been

told, the subjunctive is sometimes "missused" in literature (and

Asterix the Gaul) to convey a subtlety of meaning.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Cassis"]How come this got resurrected from the deep past (tense)?  Good grief, before today it was last posted in April !
[/quote]Possibly somebody was brushing up on their biblical quotes and found Lazarus.