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I have confused my self


Pads

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I am confused over the question im about to ask let alone the answer so I hope you understand what Im trying to say!![blink]

to translate the sentance

Me and my friends spent two hours in Bordeaux

My first thought was :

moi et mes amis sont passé deux heures en Bordeaux

But then i thought hang on , no me and them = us , so I thought :

moi et mes amis nous sommes passé deux en Bordeaux.

But then I thought , Hang on Im talking about me so should it be Je suis passé

So I had a look through a few books and found a simular sentance that started with me and my  friends and it used

moi et mes amis ont passé 

so is it être + passer as it says in my verb book or avoir + passer to make the past tense.

also If I changed the sentance to My friends and I spent 2 hours in Bodrdeaux , does that change it all over again ? 

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to translate the sentance

Me and my friends spent two hours in Bordeaux

My first thought was : moi et mes amis sont passé deux heures en Bordeaux         NOT QUITE THERE!

But then i thought hang on , no me and them = us , so I thought : moi et mes amis nous sommes passé deux en Bordeaux.    GETIING THERE!

But then I thought , Hang on Im talking about me so should it be Je suis passé     BIG NONO!

So I had a look through a few books and found a simular sentance that started with me and my  friends and it used: moi et mes amis ont passé    DID IT??? [8-)]

so is it être + passer as it says in my verb book Noooooooooooooo or avoir + passer to make the past tense.Yesssssssssssss!

also If I changed the sentance to My friends and I spent 2 hours in Bodrdeaux , does that change it all over again ? MAKES NO DIFFERENCE...

You're on the right track, just follow it through

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Christopher, is Pad's example because moi et mes amis (I'd do it the other way myself and begin with my freinds) suddenly become ils for some reason - it's obviously one of those things which passed me by?  I am as puzzled as Clair as to why the phrasebook would have said this....

 Because, Pads, "ont" is the third person plural of avoir.

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That makes more sence when translated me and my friend have spent , but my book verb says: ils/ elles sont passé  but I have just looked in another book an it uses the other, now my confusion is I thought Passé composé meant the past tense ? but in the other book it calls it Perfect? which one is the past tense ? Im really mad now as I have just used the first book for all of todays home work, [:(] 
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So going with we

one book says Passé compose: Moi et mes amis  sommes passé deux heures en B

the other says: perfect:  Moi et mes amis  avon passé  

which is the past tense ?

just taken out the nous didnt mean to put that there [:$]

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

Christopher, is Pad's example because moi et mes amis (I'd do it the other way myself and begin with my freinds) suddenly become ils for some reason - it's obviously one of those things which passed me by?  I am as puzzled as Clair as to why the phrasebook would have said this....

 Because, Pads, "ont" is the third person plural of avoir.

[/quote]

You're right, Coops if you mean it should be mes amis et moi avons passé deux heures à Bordeaux.

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Does any one else have Mc Graw Hill's The big blue book of french verbs 555 fully conjugated verbs ? could you check and see if im going mad ? If its wrong I cant trust the rest of the book now [:@]

Im going to see if I can contact them and tell them what for !!

So passé compose and perfect are the same thing ..... Yes?

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[quote user="Pads"]

So going with we

one book says Passé compose: Moi et mes amis  sommes passé deux heures en B

the other says: perfect:  Moi et mes amis  avon passé  

which is the past tense ?

just taken out the nous didnt mean to put that there [:$]

[/quote]

The problem is that passer can be transitive (J'ai passé du temps avec

eux
), as you are trying to use it with your trip to Bordeaux, or intransitive as in Je suis passé(e) vers 18h00 (I came at 6pm)

But your book that says Moi et mes amis  sommes passé deux heures en B is incorrect.

Moi et mes amis  avons passé deux heures à B would be correct.

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[quote user="spg"]

[quote user="Cjlaws"]

Moi et mes amis  avons passé deux heures en B would be correct. [/quote]

Or even, as they say hereabouts, ... sur Bordeaux!

Sue [:)]

[/quote]

Thanks. In fact I've edited my reply to à Bordeaux to keeps things to the point.

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I have just found the email for Mc graw hill customer services , before I send the email I have just written will some one who is 100% sure that

Passé Compose :

Je suis passé (e)

Tu es passé (e)

il/ele est passé (e)

nous sommes passé (e)s

vous êtes passé (e) (s)

ils/elles sont passé(e)(s)

Is wrong let me know  ? Any idea what the letters in brackets stand for ?

Plus will some one confirm is Passé compose and perfect the same thing ?

Cor Im so mad at them I could spit [6] I have just finished translating 30 sentances with this book , and this was the only one that didnt feel right......... so Im going to have to recheck them all again now, and my other verb book dosnt have as many verbs as this one[:(] 

Just had another thought [:$] Passer (to pass) is the right verb to use for spending time ? isnt it [:$]  

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[quote user="Pads"]

I have just found the email for Mc graw hill customer services , before I send the email I have just written will some one who is 100% sure that

Passé Compose :

Je suis passé (e)

Tu es passé (e)

il/ele est passé (e)

nous sommes passé (e)s

vous êtes passé (e) (s)

ils/elles sont passé(e)(s)

Is wrong let me know  ? Any idea what the letters in brackets stand for ?

Plus will some one confirm is Passé compose and perfect the same thing ?

Cor Im so mad at them I could spit [6] I have just finished translating 30 sentances with this book , and this was the only one that didnt feel right......... so Im going to have to recheck them all again now, and my other verb book dosnt have as many verbs as this one[:(]   

[/quote]

Pads, the conjugation you're quoting is for the intrasitive form of passer, which means to come (in the sense of "I came here/there at three o'clock", not "I spent 3 hours in Bordeaux". The letters in brackets are for the feminine and plural forms of the past particple (passé), which, since you're using être, has to agree with the subject. So I came at 4 o'clock is je suis passée à 16.00 heures  if you are female, and we came at 4 o'clock is nous sommes passés à 16.00 heures.

Passé composé is the French equivalent of the perfect tense.

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I have a  book off 501 French verbs, is that the one you mean? If so what page?

If not can you give more information where the sentence came from, what it was translating or an example of etc?

I think that you should be sure of yourself before complaining.

I always use Bescherelle, 12000 verbs yet a fraction of the size of the others.

The passé composé is the closest equivalent of the English past perfect tense

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[quote user="J.R."]

I have a  book off 501 French verbs, is that the one you mean? If so what page?

No its Mc Graw Hill big blue book of verbs 555 fully conjugated page361 

if not can you give more information where the sentence came from, what it was translating or an example of etc?

I think that you should be sure of yourself before complaining.

I always use Bescherelle, 12000 verbs yet a fraction of the size of the others.

The passé composé is the closest equivalent of the English past perfect tense

When you say the closest equivalent to ?? do you mean that perfect and passé composé are not the same thing ?

as the first book dosnt have perfect in , but one is american and one is english  is this the problem ?

[/quote]
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I have sent them an email , very polite , just asking them to check if it is a mistake , if they come back and say it is then I will give the buggars what for [6]

so anyhow !!

the correct answer is :

Me and my friends spent 2 hours in Bordeaux

is

Moi et mes amis avons passé deux heures en Bordeaux

using the we form of avoir , and en not à (did some some say it was à?)

YES / NO ????[:-))]  

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[quote user="J.R."]

I always use Bescherelle, 12000 verbs yet a fraction of the size of the others.

The passé composé is the closest equivalent of the English past perfect tense

[/quote]

Bescherelle Conjugaison is fine as a quick reference to conjugation, but it doesn't explain the difference between the transitive and intransitive meanings of verbs. Bescherelle la grammaire Pour Tous won't help a novice learner of French.

The present perfect English tense (e.g. I have finished, is also the passé composé in French.

The future perfect English tense(e.g. I will have finished
) is the futur antérieur in French, but that's a bit far from what we're discussing here.

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[quote user="Pads"]

I have sent them an email , very polite , just asking them to check if it is a mistake , if they come back and say it is then I will give the buggars what for [6]

so anyhow !!

the correct answer is :

Me and my friends spent 2 hours in Bordeaux

is

Moi et mes amis avons passé deux heures en Bordeaux

using the we form of avoir , and en not à (did some some say it was à?)

YES / NO ????[:-))]  

[/quote]

Yes it's à Bordeaux and, just as you cant say me and my friends in English  in that context, Mes amis et moi would be better

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Pads

I was trying to point out that in English there are 2 perfect tenses, the present perfect and the past perfect, it is the past perfect that you are referring to i.e "I had done", the present perfect would be "I have done" It gets confusing as the construction of the passé composé literally translates as "I have done" yet means "I did" or "I had done" (I believe!).

When I said closest equivalent it was because there are 9 forms of "past" tense in French as opposed to 3 in English the past continous, the past perfect and the past simple) not including reported and passive speech.

To me the passé composé is the equivalent of the past perfect "I had done" and the past simple "I did".

Things are rarely black and white as you are learning! I had to buy a book on English grammar (which I am using for this reply) in order to better understand the English equivalents of the French tenses.

Time now for  me to post a question.

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