who gets my house?

[Babbles]

Did the people who offered the asking price make a cash offer?, because my understanding is that if they need a mortgage you do not have to "accept" the offer, I know of a case similar to this and the full offer didn't stand because they needed a mortgage and it was the second immo trying it on, it all settled down without paying lawyers but I think a phone call from the Notaire to the Immo calmed it down.

[bubbles]

Ah, thanks.

They did take out a loan for about half the price of the house.

Will keep that one up my sleeve as ammunition.

[Gardener]

[quote user="cooperlola"]I agree with your logic Gardener.  I merely comment upon the system! s.[/quote]

Apologies if my post appeared a critique of yours, it wasn't. Rather that even if the op had sent a registered letter, things could have happened with the other immo before they received it. With the email, it was immediate and were informed.

Babbles, this site may be helpful

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F2965.xhtml

[bubbles]

Still nowt back from our Notaire.

Soo frustrating.

Have just sent him another email saying we're waiting for his advice before doing anything.

I pushed the fact that we are miles away from France and that an email was instant whereas a letter recommendee (whatever they call that in Spanish ) would have probably taken a week.

I also pointed out that the mandat which we signed actually has a higher price on it than this later offer.

I hereby swear I will NEVER buy or sell another house in my life!!! i hate every bit of it.

[Quillan]

I have learnt the hard way that in France (and a few other countries) when you email somebody on such a very important issue ALWAYS to follow it up with a registered letter containing a copy of your email attached (I normally copy myself on important emails as it then contains the time and date stamp). If there is any problem, like they imply you never sent it or that you didn't send it on such and such a date, you can then say you did and that you also sent a copy via registered post and that they did receive it because they signed for it. This is particularly important when in a matter such as this timing is of the utmost importance.

[Gardener]

Have you got protection juridique? Try picking their brains or you could pose a question on somewhere like this whilst your waiting?

http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/forum/

I too think there is a bit of trying it on going here.

[bubbles]

Thanks, Gardener.

Will check out that website.

Won't hear anything from the notaire today now - its aperitif time over there.

And, thanks to you too, Quillan.

Should have done that.

I do still have all the emails saved, both received and sent so at least I can print and post if needs be.

Just don't like to do anything to mess things up further until the notaire advises me.

[mint]

My poor Bubbles, I think of and feel for you.

You are right about buying and selling:  it's never straightforward and can make a grown man weep.

But, bon courage, I keep my fingers crossed for you.

[Quillan]

You see I wouldn't wait to send a copy of your last email by registered post, I would do it tomorrow morning because this is very serious. At this stage I guess I would write a recorded letter raising all the points and attach copies of any relevant emails you have sent but not received a reply as proof. You see my experience is he may not reply because he has possibly c*cked up in some way and if he leaves it he can then say he didn't get your email etc, etc. Normally I wouldn't go quite as far as this but in this case as its got so far and possibly money has already been deposited by more than one person to buy your house you can just see that if there is any money to be paid it's going to be you to cover his possible mess. Train, tunnel and big light comes to mind. Of course everything may turn out OK, he may not have replied because he is off sick, his computer broke or on holiday but then why take the chance. You don't have to look very far on any French forum to find people jumping up and down about Notaires not answering emails, answering the phone etc so protect yourself.

[bluebaguette]

I really hope this all turns out well for you.

Let it be a warning to other vendors to read the small print (or have it explained). You must send a registered letter - do you know for sure that the e mail was received? They frequently get lost in cyberspace and are not considered legally binding from my understanding. I don't think it's too late to send a registered letter now - the point is to follow correct procedure, even if it is not straight away.

Good luck.

[Hereford]

Even if not in France have we not heard on this forum that one can send a registered letter via the La Poste website. They print it and send it so it would arrive the next day.  No idea about an attachment though...

Mrs H

[Rabbie]

Here is the link for the on-line registered mail

[PaulT]

And you can add attachments.

This certainly look like a fiddle to me......

you had two immos working for you and this one claims they have found a buyer and rushed the buyer off to sign without any discussion with you or the other immo who they probably do not know about.

So what if the other immo had found a buyer and rushed off the buyer to a Notaire to also sign.

A nasty mess - best of luck with it.

Paul

 

[bubbles]

Thanks for the link.

Have now sent the registered letter online. brilliant.

Bumped into French people over here this morning too and they were adamant that, with a non exclusive mandat, the first buyer gets it. no question.

am i feeling a bit better?

erm - a smidgeon.

All this support from the forum is a great help.

Thanks.

And, even though we wrote to our solicitor again last night, there is still no reply!

good job we're not paying him.

[woolybanana]

The notaire is not a solicitor, but a tax gatherer!

What worried me here Bubbles is that the estate agent will try everything to bully you to get their commission and may even try to block your receipt of the sale price. Which includes lying their heads off. So perhaps you need to see the contract which they are supposed to have signed on your behalf to check the dates. Also check they haven't changed the dates!!!!

[Judith]

I'm sure I posted this message a couple of days ago, but I cannot now find it.  I was very tired, maybe I pressed the wrong button - so saying it again.

What I don't understand in all this is this - until the compromis is signed by both sides (and the 7 day cooing off period over) surely you do not have a sale confirmed.  Whatever the agent might try to say ....

So have both sides signed a compromis, or is it just the deposit which has been paid .....

All very odd, I agree, but there must be some commonsense applied somewhere I feel before it all gets completely out of hand.

[bubbles]

Well, exactly, Judith.

As it was, we informed the agent of our sale long before the 7 day cooling off period had elapsed.

He then waited 6 days before informing us that he had also sold our house - at the full asking price!

Will be interesting to see if the agent as anything to say once he has received our registered letter.

[bubbles]

Well, enfin and at last the notaire has replied.

Rather terse, saying he can't always reply to emails immediately!

But, the good news is that he says nobody can hold us to a sale if we haven't signed a compromis ourselves.

And he adds that the sale lodged with him was prior to the other one so it counts!!!!!!!!

Well, trying to relax and forget about the whole thing but am still not quite sure.

At least I have that reply from him in writing should he say he has to hold back 9,000 euros from the proceeds when the sale goes through.

(If it ever does!!)

Thanks again everyone.

[joidevie]

Gosh.. It all sounds quite a situation, but sadly not hugely surprising.. A few too many coincidences for my liking..

My gut feeling would be to bluff them at their own game? (if there is in fact hocus pocus at play here). If the original mandat was for a higher figure, and then only 'verbally' agreed to a lower 'asking price', I would ask them to forward you (by registered post of course) 'proof' that they had in fact achieved the 'full asking price' - backed up with copies of all the signed paperwork from the sale supporting that the 'full asking price had in fact been obtained' (ie. the figure on the mandat with your signature on it.. ). Just as informing the agent of your original sale by registered letter is a required, so too surely is a correctly signed and agreed mandat with the correct and consistent figures?

Surely a discrepancy like this would throw the argument into touch?

[Babbles]

Glad to hear it's almost sorted, stress full times

[Mikep]

Coming back to the original point, the standard "Mandat" contract allows the agent to sign the Compromis de Vente on your behalf at the (full) contract price, without prior reference to you - unless you have notified them by registered letter (recommandee avec accuse de reception) that the property has been sold elsewhere.

[bubbles]

Blimey, that is very harsh.

We actually notified the agents (by email which was the standard method of contacting him since he knew we weren't in France, or even in England, but on holiday) that we had agreed a sale 2 days after the compromis - and while the 7 day cooling off period was still in force.

Our buyer could still have changed her mind at that time.

By the time that the agent informed us out of the blue that he could get the full asking price (but not the price on the mandat!), the cooling off period had elapsed and we couldn't have backed out of the first sale!

If we could do it all over again, how should we have played this? Send registered letter the minute we are told someone has put in an acceptable offer? Surely not.

[Stan Streason]

The "If we could do it all over again" point.  I have been following the thread and have wanted to add "why didnt you phone and speak to the agent?"

Presumably you chose the agent in the first place so you must have been comfortable with them at the time. Some of them cannot be rogues surely?  I know I have only purchased and the relationship with the agent is slightly different but we talked all the time - I even knew his boss and had spoken to them previously as well (and that was with an agent the vendor chose - not me).

I just keep thinking that if it were me I would have held off accepting an offer even if it were just for 10 mins till I had spoken to the agent and talked through the consequenses.  I would then have confirmed the conversation by immediate email noting that they had no purchaser in the pipeline.  It may have been a whole new ball-game if they said they had a hot prospect and to hold off accepting for a week. Not thought that one through yet.

Edit:

Having said that it would be scandalous if you ended up out of pocket through this.

[mint]

Stan S, I have followed your post very closely and I will note the contents carefully should I have to use an agent to sell my old house.

Mine isn't on the market yet but I know that my OH is reluctant to use an agent precisely because of all the permutations of Contract Law and he thinks that agents could be very cute when it comes to demanding their fees.

BTW and on a more personal note, I didn't buy the house for which you gave me excellent advice re buying in sterling because the owner withdrew it from the market just before the initial signing.

I got so jittery when I did come to buy our present house that I paid in euros even though the sellers were Brits.  Didn't want to lose this one.  It was a real shame as I would have liked not to have to change money.

[andyh4]

[quote user="bubbles"]. By the time that the agent informed us ....that he could get the full asking price ....the cooling off period had elapsed and we couldn't have backed out of the first sale! .[/quote]

 

The cooling off period in any case does not apply to the seller - only the buyer.