Buying a barn in France ... please help!

[iluvjohnsarg]

Hello All

... and may I start by saying what a great forum this is.

As stated in the subject I'm in the process of buying a barn in France, and today I had a call from the agent about searches, etc. Anyway, they mentioned something about the property having to be offered/made available to/at the Agricultural Board.

Does anyone know what this means? I'm very confused and was unable to question them as I was incredibly busy at work at the time.

Thanks in advance.

[david]

Hi,

I'm sorry I cannot help you with the Agricultural Board question but am wondering if you are aware of barn buying pitfalls?

Our 'friendly' neighbour farmer took us to court because our barn was 47m from his barn housing cattle. If you wish to convert a barn to a dwelling it must be at the minimum of 50m. This does not apply if there is an internal connection (ie: door or corridor) to a building that was once a dwelling.

Hope this doesn't open a can of worms. Good luck with your purchase.

Sarah

[Cjlaws]

Agricultural property is subject to a right of preemption by SAFER.

The explanation is HERE

That site is in French, but a Google in English "right preemption SAFER" leads to several explanations in English.

Hope that helps.

[Patf]

This link also gives an explanation:

http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-property/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=11327

[Pads]

[quote user="david"]

Hi,

I'm sorry I cannot help you with the Agricultural Board question but am wondering if you are aware of barn buying pitfalls?

Our 'friendly' neighbour farmer took us to court because our barn was 47m from his barn housing cattle. If you wish to convert a barn to a dwelling it must be at the minimum of 50m. This does not apply if there is an internal connection (ie: door or corridor) to a building that was once a dwelling.

Hope this doesn't open a can of worms. Good luck with your purchase.

Sarah

[/quote]

David is this 50m from animals or from any other building ? including other dwellings ?

[Ysatis]

 

I think an agricultural building that houses animals has to be so many metres from a habital dwelling. I think you have to look at the PLU for your commune to find the details.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Ysatis "]I think an agricultural building that houses animals has to be so many metres from a habital dwelling. I think you have to look at the PLU for your commune to find the details.[/quote]

Ok I think the OP has got his answer, so I would like to know if the statement above is correct!

I have an old farm and although not used now for animals, one of the stone barns is attached to a neighbours barn which is now converted into a small house, my barn is an old cattle shed with ties for about six cows and a feeding bing and hay loft over, all left as it was when in use. Are you 'Ysatis' saying that I would not now be able to keep stock in my barn because it is within the 50 meters of a habitable dwelling!

[BJSLIV]

I think you or your predecessor gave up the right to keep animals when no objection was raised  to the conversion of the neighbouring property.

If animals had been in residence in your part of the building  I don't think permission for the conversion would have been entertained.

Look on the bright side you can't ever keep animals there but at least you have scope for a rustic gite.

http://www.laterre.fr/article.php3?id_article=383

 

[Pads]

Will this enclude pets ? Im thinking of buying a barn with the hope to use some of it for a pet goat , donkey,and horse when I move out , its oppersite my house and my neighbours house .?

 

[Cat]

Pads, the actual distances allowed between buildings housing animals depend on the department and also the number, and type, of animals.  For example, in Vienne, it is as outlined in this document...

http://www.vienne.chambagri.fr/infospratiques/InfosJuridique/juridique/070727.pdf  (the diagram on page 2 is the easiest to understand)

For the OP, it looks as if the land is being offered to SAFER...

http://www.vienne.chambagri.fr/infospratiques/InfosJuridique/juridique/110703.htm

Google English version here

[Will]

There is actually an official SAFER website in both English and French - this is the English version explaining the right of pre-emption:

http://www.terresdeurope.net/en/right-to-pre-emption-french-farm.html

This right is seldom exercised, but by law the procedure has to be followed in the case of sale of certain agricultural property.

Anybody buying a building for conversion in France should make sure that the compromis de vente (initial sale contract) contains a clause suspensive making the purchase conditional on obtaining a positive CU (certificat d'urbanisme - a sort of outline planning consent). This should be included as a matter of course by agents or notaires, but it has been known for unscrupulous sellers to omit this, knowing that a CU will not be granted and taking advantage of a naive buyer, and thus get a lot more money than the building is really worth.

Just because a building may appear to have been residential at some time in the past, it does not follow that it will be possible to use it again as a house - proximity to buildings housing animals is one of several reasons why permission will not be given.

You will see plenty of farms where people and animals live in very close proximity, these date from before the current law was applied.

 

[Gastines]

Would it be correct to say that the buyer could have /should have a clause suspensive in his/her contract so that if permission is not granted for habitation, the sale doesn't complete and the deposit is returned?

Regards.

[Will]

It would be more correct to say 'must have' which is what I should have written in the third paragraph of the post above yours. [;-)]

[iluvjohnsarg]

Thanks for all the responses! SAFER was never mentioned by the agent, but permission to convert the barn to a residential property has already been granted and the plans are going through for the proposed extension, so I'm a little alarmed by this part of the process.

If I understand the articles/links you kind folk have posted - then the farmers have got first refusal to purchase? Surely the property should not be offered for 'general' sale if this is the case! [8-)]

[BJSLIV]

Don't worry , as has already been said, SAFER very rarely intervenes. I think the reason they have a right of preemption is to prevent someone buying a plot of land which would frustrate an agricultural development. You have to remember in rural communities , particuarly where land has been fragmented by the inheritance laws, it is not uncommon for a  small piece of land to be capable of blocking a perfectly logical development. It also not unknown , because of village / family feuds, for someone to be happier to sell to an outsider than to their neighbour, simply for reasons of spite or family history.