Michael Wotsisface

[Chancer]

You know the F1 sausage nosher. [:)]

Who is pi55pronouncing his surname the English or the French?

How do the Germans pronounce it?

Michael Shoomacker?

Or Michel Shoomarrer?

 

[Swissie]

ch = rrr (you'd know if you were a scouser!).

[NormanH]

"ch "as in scots" loch "

[Chancer]

Now I am confused, Norman tells me that the Germans pronounce it as a hard K as in loch but Swissie says it is RRR, not that I have heard a Scouser pronounce ch as RRR [8-)]

My neighbour tells me that if he read a foreign word or name containing acher he would pronounce it acker.

So once again I ask who is mispronouncing his name, the English, the French or maybe even both of us?

[Bugsy]

http://www.mschumacher.com/biography.html

You will see from the above that he is simply known as "Schuey" or "Schumi"

.

[Chancer]

I doubt that I will ever meet him or be close enough to use an affectionate name but was more concerned with what seems to my ear to be a consistent and abnormal pronunciation in French, it may well be that there are other words that should be pronounced this way.

Some words just seem to leap out at me when I hear them, the prononciation of Laguiole by newsreaders for instance is at variance to how the locals of my area say it, I assume that the newsreaders are correct but again dont know why it should be pronounced in that way, perhaps its the same as some place names in England like Wrotham in Kent (pronounced Rootem by locals).

So which is correct Macker or Marrer? if its the first what is the reason for the Marrer in French?

[NormanH]

I don't think that  hard 'ch' as in Scots exists in French any more than 'th'.

On the other hand it certainly does in German,  although some dialects soften it to closer to 'sh' and others harden it to almost 'k'

So 'ich' (I) can sound from 'ish' too 'ik'

This link shows how to pronounce grouped consonants in German with an audio file to illustrate

http://german.about.com/library/anfang/blanfang_abc2.htm

I have always assumed that the French have chosen to use an approximation.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Chancer"]I doubt that I will ever meet him or be close enough to use an affectionate name [/quote]

I met him two years ago in Monaco [:P], quiet, unassuming and very nice guy. Well into bikes as well, of course.

.

[Chancer]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

I could understand it being pronounced Shoomasher but its the R sound thats used, just like demarreur that I cant get my head around [8-)]

Swissie can you enlarge on your response?

Oh and to add to the confusion he is always referred to as Michel yet whenever Michael Douglas is mentioned his proper prenom is used.

 

[allanb]

[quote user="NormanH"]I don't think that  hard 'ch' as in Scots exists in French any more than 'th'.  On the other hand it certainly does in German,  although some dialects soften it to closer to 'sh' and others harden it to almost 'k'.  So 'ich' (I) can sound from 'ish' to 'ik'[/quote]

There's more than a dialect difference.  In 'Michael Schumacher', in standard German, there are three different sounds: 'ich' is different from 'ach' and they're both different from 'sch'.

I agree that when French people say 'Schumarrer' it's just because that kind of 'ch' is just difficult for them to say.  (We Scots have an advantage here.)

PS: in answer to Chancer's question: the German pronunciation of 'Michael' is nothing like the English.  The French 'Michel' is nearer to it but in German the 'a' and the 'e' are both pronounced.  It all depends what you mean by 'correct'! 

It would be interesting to know how M.S. himself pronounces 'Michael' when speaking English.  Does anyone know?

[Chancer]

Yes I heard one newsreader saying Mish A E ll Schumarrer last night.

I must be missing something, I understand that the French have a problem with a hard ach sound except when its Michael Douglas [;-)] and I think that I can see that a Scots person will find it easy to say, och aye de noo and all that but please can one of you native speakers tell me how they arrive at "arrer".

Swissies reply that ch = rrr I just dont understand nor the reference to scousers.

[NormanH]

In my bit of the South a word like 'arbre' has a very gutteral 'r' , almost a 'rh' sound

I can only suppose that they find this a sort of equivalent, or that they just don't care  and say something they find easy.

Michael Douglas is not the same because the 'ch' is like a 'k', a familiar sound in French.

The French could have chosen to say 'Shoomakker', but that would also be wrong, except that some German dialects might say that, while none would say 'Schumarrer'.'

[allanb]

[quote user="NormanH"]The French could have chosen to say 'Shoomakker', but that would also be wrong...[/quote]

They seem to think that "marrer" is closer, although to my ear, "makker" would be a bit better.

It's curious that when they talk about (for instance) the composer J.S. Bach they're quite happy to call him "Back".

Can anyone tell us how French people pronounce 'ch' in the German town names in Alsace like Forbach and Hambach?  Just like 'k', I would guess. 

[Chancer]

[quote user="NormanH"]
I can only suppose that they find this a sort of equivalent, or that they just don't care  and say something they find easy.
[/quote]

I will have to settle for that Norman [:D]

I have been pestering every French person that I know with this question and they all seem embarrassed and uncomfortable with their unified "I dont know why but everyone does" answers.

Usually when I ask a question of the French language the native speakers are quick to respond, I guess that there cannot be any other answer than yours Norman [;-)]

[NormanH]

Of course sports commentators massacre English place-names such as Leicester and Gloucester.

I wonder what the Film critics call Pete Postlethwaite?[8-)]