Poil de carotte

[Pads]

We are going to be working on a play of this book for our class after Easter and for our home work we are translating the first two scenes.

This is the setting of the scene bit before people start talking ....

Poil de Carrotte, nu-tête, porte les vieux vêtements de son frère Félix. Cheveux roux. Il donne  de l'herbe à son lapin. Apres il vient couper avec une pioche les herbes de la cour.

 

Now I make this ...

Poil de carrotte, bare headed, wears the old clothes of his brother Felix, red hair ,  He gives some grass to his rabbit. After he comes to cut with a hoe the grass of the court ...

My question is would you use ...comes.... I would of said ...goes... but then my English is as bad as my french !! or do they use come in this manner ?

Also why put red hair after the first sentance as we already know he's got red hair ??

Any thoughts any one ?

Thankyou      

[cooperlola]

Venir de, Pads, means having just done something.  He gives his rabbit some grass, having just cut the courtyard grass with a hoe/hoed the courtyard.

 

Would you really say "the old clothes of his brother," Pads?  If I were your prof', I'd rather see everyday English and thus "his brother's old clothes" sounds better to me.

 

As far as the red-hair bit goes, it all depends upon what sort of translation you are expecting to make.  Yours is fine, but to my mind the author of the original wants to emphasise the fact that having no hat on, his red hair is really obvious.  Hence, if I were translating for an audience and not for a language exercise, I would say something like : "He wears no hat, revealing a shock of red hair."  (That's not very good, but you get what I mean, I hope?)

[Pads]

Thanks Cooperlola but Im a little confused I have Il vient as the present term of venir to come ... he comes , is that not right? or is it double used as having just as well?

When translating I do a literal translation first then go back and re write as I would say it, so yes I will use his brothers old clothes when I write it out again ...     

[cooperlola]

The literal translation and the meaning are different things.  Je viens d'arriver means "I have just arrived". You would never say, "I come from arriving" in English, would you?  You need to distance yourself from the direct translation of the verb venir - it is being used differently here.

I'm sure that a proper teacher can express it better than I.[:)]

[Pads]

I get what your saying if there was a.. de.. in the sentence but there isnt one here , So when Im working on my sentance how do I know its... have just... rather than... he comes ? 

Sorry to be a pest but if I dont work out the REASON WHY I wont sleep to night

Sorry my smilies dont work ....  or Id give you my Im being thick smiley and a wink !!

[cooperlola]

Yes, I see what you mean. 

"Afterwards, he comes and cuts/to cut the courtyard grass with a hoe..." then.  Better?  I think what you put was fine, and I don't see that goes would be any better.

 

[Pads]

Yes I think that is probally it ....well done you  ( big smile ) you can rest now knowing I will sleep well tonight (wink) .....

 

Many thanks x

[Pads]

Trouble is now you have me thinking ....... where did he get the grass from for the rabbit if he cut it after he fed the rabbit ...... (laughs!!) So I think your first thought could be right ...just have to work out why now (sigh...few tears...sniff... brave smile smiley)

[idun]

I didn't read it like that, how wrong am I? Could someone explain in simple terms please.

 

Bare headed Ginger, wearing his brother Felix's old clothes. Red hair (that is confusing). He gives some grass to his rabbit after he cuts it with a hoe in the courtyard.

 

And that is how I read it. I used to hate my kids english home work, I never knew what the teachers wanted, they must have, to get a 'very well' as a remark.

[Pads]

Oh Idun you made me laugh so hard I started to cry ....time for a rest me thinks.......!! You know thats my biggest problem in life ...Never knowing what people want !! (2 winks )

[idun]

I love a good laugh at bedtime, is there anything better than going to sleep smiling[:D] Bonne Nuit, fais de beaux reves.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Pads"]

This is the setting of the scene bit before people start talking ....

Poil de Carrotte, nu-tête, porte les vieux vêtements de son frère Félix. Cheveux roux. Il donne  de l'herbe à son lapin. Apres il vient couper avec une pioche les herbes de la cour. [/quote]

I have a few observations to add to the confusion although perhaps the key is in the setting of the scene bit above.

It could be venir de but if so then the de is definitely missing

The full stop and capital A in apres that follows it rather rules out "he gives the grass to his rabbit after he has just cut it........." The punctuation would make the meaning:

"He is giving (he gives) the grass to his rabbit.  After (wards) he cuts the grass in the yard with a pioche"

Have you copied the text correctly Pads or was it perhaps an audio tape.

I always read Pad's postings and the dicussions with interest, it makes me question my understanding and I usually always learn something, this time is that I have always mis-spelt the he/she conjugation of venir, and no doubt other ir verbs, I have always missed the T.

[Pads]

Morning Chancer

Jusr read it again and checked all the full stops and capitals and except for the one's on Poil de Carrotte they are all in the right place . So I think your point of the full stop and the capital on A , Is right he did feed the Rabbit then go and cut the grass...... or in this case comes and cuts the grass .... Another thought I have had is because this is the bit that sets the scene it is some times told in this manner isnt it ? Im sure I have read it like this before in english plays, to make you feel like you are actually there .... What do you think ?

Hope this makes sence ?? (confused wink)  

[Chancer]

Yes it does make sense that way, if it is read as the setting of the scene. The "comes" probably is because the scene to be acted out is in the courtyard, it may start something like "its a shame I have just fed my rabbit, he could have helped me"

Except the seperate sentence containing nothing but "red hair" completely throws me whether I am wearing my English or French head!

[Pads]

Yes the red hair bit throws me too...but I think its just making sure you realise he has red hair ( in case you didnt get that by his name) as later on he says his mum tells him its good for him to go out in the full mid day sun to work , because she dosnt like him !!!

Next bit that has got me ... I believe... Sois tranquille means... be quiet, but can it also be used to answer a question, so to assure some one ?

eg You will call me wont you ? ........ Sois tranquille ( rest assure ?) would that make sence ?     

[Chancer]

Sois tranquille = be calm/peacefull, - present imperative tense but the gentle kind of imperative which is why I didnt use the exclamation mark.

Calme-toi! A bit more direct like a scouser "Calm down, Calm down"

On va se calmer! -_ Used to diffuse a situation

Ne t'inquiete pas / Ne vous inquietez  pas would more commonly be used to say "dont worry" in the I will phone you context.

Or I suppose "sois tranquille, tu peut compter sur moi"

[Pads]

In this situation the boy says ...Tu m'appelleras aussi ?

Father replies ..... Sois tranquille

Boy says thank you , so my first thought of.. be quiet !  dosnt fit in , the father is being nice to him , so what do you think he means by that ? I feel as if he is reassuring him

[idun]

He was reassuring him. It was 'don't worry' or as you said, 'rest assured'.........meaning that he'll call.

 

 

[Pads]

Thankyou thats good...

Just learnt a new word ...tour à tour = alternately.... I shall try to slip that into conversation next time Im out there ....its one of those words thats slips off nicely isnt it ?  (wink) makes me sound like a bull fighter .....( confused smiley) .... oh dear time to rest the old pen again me thinks .....

[Pads]

Il jette la pioche..... Now my first thought is he throws the hoe , But that wont fit in with the rest of the story , So Im thinking he hoe's with the hoe ? what would you say in English ?

Would you use jette to mean hoe's ?

 

 

Thankyou

[Chancer]

Once again context is everything, difficult to decide without seeing how it fits in with the tale.

I would say he slings teh hoe to one side, abandons it, or gives up with it.

In France jeter l'eponge is the same as us saying to throw in the towel.

hope that helps

[Pads]

Thanks Chancer ... Thinking about it I think that he stops working as he is talking to his father , so abandons the hoe-ing , while still holding on to the hoe , as when he stops taking he continues with his job.

Many thanks again....