mint Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 but I am hoping that someone here could![:)]A bit of context: I was making a RV with my kiné who likes to practise his English. We agreed on next Wednesday at 2 o'clock, the same as for this week.So he asks me: the same day, the same hour? I said, well, actually in English, we would say, same day, same TIME?That left us both perplexed. He said that in French we would say le meme jour, la meme heure. He argued that "time" didn't make sense because you couldn't say le meme temps!Now, I have no idea why we say "same time"; "same hour" deffo doesn't sound right to me. Apart from the sound of it, I don't know why we say the one and not the other.Has anyone got a rational explanation? Maybe there isn't one, maybe it's just usage but I thought I'd ask in case there is an interesting explanation.Norman, Betty, Hoddy, any idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Sorry I am not Hoddy, Norman or Betty but ..In French to ask the time you say ..'quelle heure est-il' ?In English we ask 'what time is it' ?Simply that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 French uses "heure"where English uses "time", as you know. In English, time is the blanket, uncountable noun, and hours, minutes, days etc are the countable, measurable units of time.In French, broadly, "heure" is both the countable and the uncountable noun, as it can refer to a general or specific time...Not sure if that's clear enough? I can't even see the whole of the sentence I've typed at once as I'm on my phone.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 And you CAN use temps in French just like in English in certain circs. Like "je regarde le TDF et j'écris ma réponse en même temps" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Good replies, Sue and Betty.Next time I see him, I will hit him with both those points. He'd like the countable and uncountable; many of my French friends seem to like discussing those sorts of grammatical niceties.Shame in a way that that will be my last appointment so I won't get a chance to pointedly say same day, same time to him. Also he is rather dishy and he's done me a power of good. My cough is practically gone and, because of that, I feel free to do lots of stuff that I felt inhibited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Mint - you overestimate my competence in Franch.Oddly, I was musing on something similar last week.In a recipe for clafoutis i found peu à peu and petit à petit in the same sentence. I could only think that the sentence flowed better that way. Maybe someone has a better idea ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Just Google "quelle temps est il?" You get weather!But also "at the same time" is "en même temps".So time, weather and hours intertwined? No science - it just is!!As Sue (Scientist/Mathematician) says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Betty's bound to know that one![:)]Peu itself can be a bit tricky: un peu means a little but peu de means few.Now have I got that one right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Uncountables. Such fun.Little by little, bit by bit. Wasn't that in a Dusty Springfield song?Sometimes (massive cop-out alert) as Hoddy says, you're just looking for a different way to say the same thing so a sentence isn't repetitive or clumsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Mint: sorry...missed your comment.Peu and un peu follow a verbPeu de and un peu de precede a noun.That's a simple little rule ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Yes, like that little rule.Je travail un peu parce que aujourd'hui il y a peu de clients? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Yep, its a rule - so it just is as it is!!Shame is that locals in different areas seem to have different "rules".I will just smile tomorrow at the birthday party of a local patois speaker. Nb we get on well with O level ability and sign language. Today he just pointed at the black clouds from the normal direction of our weather and I understood straight away what he was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Good example, mint.Here's a link I don't know if you have come across, but it's name reminds me of you so much that I feel you really need it in your life if it's not already there.Sorry it won't be clickable. Leflepourlescurieux.fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Ooh yes, right up my street[:D]un grand merci du fond du coeur! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 An English friend of mine was trying the CAPES to become an English teacher in France, and had a question on 'le temps' in Great Expectations which was a set text for the exam.He wrote for 3 hours on the weather..I pointed out that they might also mean the passage of time and the way the narrator looks back with regret, and the way in which Pip's future is affected by the past.There you have two uses of 'temps' as it can also mean 'tense' in the English sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 And, of course, can't forget the time signature, la signature de temps?[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Au premier temps de la valseToute seule tu souris déjàAu premier temps de la valseJe suis seul, mais je t´aperçoisEt Paris qui bat la mesureParis qui mesure notre émoiEt Paris qui bat la mesureMe murmure murmure tout bas[Refrain:]Une valse à trois tempsQui s´offre encore le tempsQui s´offre encore le tempsDe s´offrir des détoursDu côté de l´amourComme c´est charmantUne valse à quatre tempsC´est beaucoup moins dansantC´est beaucoup moins dansantMais tout aussi charmantQu´une valse à trois tempsUne valse à quatre tempsUne valse à vingt ansC´est beaucoup plus troublantC´est beaucoup plus troublantMais beaucoup plus charmantQu´une valse à trois tempsUne valse à vingt ansUne valse à cent tempsUne valse à cent ansUne valse ça s´entendA chaque carrefourDans Paris que l´amourRafraîchit au printempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse a mis l´tempsDe patienter vingt ansPour que tu aies vingt ansEt pour que j´aie vingt ansUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsOffre seule aux amantsTrois cent trente-trois fois l´tempsDe bâtir un roman Au deuxième temps de la valseOn est deux, tu es dans mes brasAu deuxième temps de la valseNous comptons tous les deux : une deux troisEt Paris qui bat la mesureParis qui mesure notre émoiEt Paris qui bat la mesureNous fredonne, fredonne déjà[Refrain:]Une valse à trois tempsQui s´offre encore le tempsQui s´offre encore le tempsDe s´offrir des détoursDu côté de l´amourComme c´est charmantUne valse à quatre tempsC´est beaucoup moins dansantC´est beaucoup moins dansantMais tout aussi charmantQu´une valse à trois tempsUne valse à quatre tempsUne valse à vingt ansC´est beaucoup plus troublantC´est beaucoup plus troublantMais beaucoup plus charmantQu´une valse à trois tempsUne valse à vingt ansUne valse à cent tempsUne valse à cent ansUne valse ça s´entendA chaque carrefourDans Paris que l´amourRafraîchit au printempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse a mis l´tempsDe patienter vingt ansPour que tu aies vingt ansEt pour que j´aie vingt ansUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsOffre seule aux amantsTrois cent trente-trois fois l´tempsDe bâtir un roman Au troisième temps de la valseNous valsons enfin tous les troisAu troisième temps de la valseIl y a toi, y a l´amour et y a moiEt Paris qui bat la mesureParis qui mesure notre émoiEt Paris qui bat la mesureLaisse enfin éclater sa joie[Refrain:]Une valse à trois tempsQui s´offre encore le tempsQui s´offre encore le tempsDe s´offrir des détoursDu côté de l´amourComme c´est charmantUne valse à quatre tempsC´est beaucoup moins dansantC´est beaucoup moins dansantMais tout aussi charmantQu´une valse à trois tempsUne valse à quatre tempsUne valse à vingt ansC´est beaucoup plus troublantC´est beaucoup plus troublantMais beaucoup plus charmantQu´une valse à trois tempsUne valse à vingt ansUne valse à cent tempsUne valse à cent ansUne valse ça s´entendA chaque carrefourDans Paris que l´amourRafraîchit au printempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse a mis l´tempsDe patienter vingt ansPour que tu aies vingt ansEt pour que j´aie vingt ansUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsUne valse à mille tempsOffre seule aux amantsTrois cent trente-trois fois l´tempsDe bâtir un roman Lalala la lalala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Ooooo, Norman; is that Jacques Brel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 Funny in an innocent way and I enjoy the word play; joyful and charming. Thank you, Norman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I thought Normans post was a French recipe.I started to make it. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Fitting the thread perfectly, Brel from Norman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Yes Jacques Brel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 His singing of the song was full of passion. ( No, Norman, not you, you don't have that kind of voice!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Jacques Brel is not French BTW.For those who don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Then there are words like temperate, temperature, from a latin root:https://www.etymonline.com/word/temperateOne explanation on there which relates to time is 'regulated'.Language is fascinating, but imo you can never get an exact equivalent when translating one language to another. So many other cultural influences. Let alone grammar rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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