Speaking french

[idun]

For those who move to France, with little or no french, just how long did you expect it to take you to speak enough french to 'manage' to do most things in life????

And how long did it take in reality???

I was discussing this with a friend the other day.

Speech only, not written french which is quite another thing[:D]

[Spider]

I was always taught to put one question mark after a question. Do you think putting several "???" makes it stand out as an important question or draw peoples attention to your post? Why do you do that?

[idun]

 Ah please, of all the stuff on the internet with abbreviations and stuff, my ??? multiple question marks worry you.

I don't do it to make it stand out, but that I do more than 'ponder' it....... take it or leave it.[blink]

[woolybanana]

Take it or leave it?????????????

[Spider]

A bit like this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nomoss]

Sarcasm and nit-picking seem to be becoming popular today[:(]

[Patf]

Idun - obviously a sensitive topic.

Personally I don't think any of us from the UK, arriving in middle age or later, can ever be as fluent as native born.

One advantage you and I have, Idun, is that we have the NE England broad vowels, more easily understood by french people.

My friend in France came from Devon and the locals couldn't understand a word .  Though she gets away with it because she's such a cheerful sociable person. They're still there, after 30 years.

[Spider]

I originated in the NE and didn't speak a word of French when we moved here. Took me just over a month to become fluent and then we went native, never looked back. You would be hard pushed to tell us from our French neighbours at a chasse  dinner. Total immersion, that's the way to do it.

Went back to the UK once and visited the NE again, what a cold miserable place it is, sun never came out while we were there. Full of bloody foreigners now and returnees from Europe who couldn't cope with the language.

[cajal]

[quote user="nomoss"]Sarcasm and nit-picking seem to be becoming popular today[:(]

[/quote]

Hmm. Perhaps tomorrows full moon could be frying some brains.

[woolybanana]

Spider, you fit right in in this forum. But I wonder if you are not an alias for a late member! ?

[idun]

Spider,  if you are so surdoué

with regards to learning languages, what on earth are you doing just in

France. That is truly a gift beyond measure and I am sure that one

could count on ones fingers, the number of people on the planet who could learn a new language in just over a month.

I don't know where you are from in the NE, because I know of some places in the NE that are just like that, the sun could shine but they would still be grim, even without the pits these days.

And I know of places in France that are just the same, we used to cut across country to pick up an autoroute and I used to always hope we would never break down there.

Still the NE of England has some wonderful areas and such friendly people, especially in Newcastle, that I would recommend anyone visit that city.

And I know of lovely places in France too, the friendliest people we found  in France are the bretons, and for all I never visited all of France, they were the most amiable we found.

I am not surdoue, I speak french like a vache espagnole, and so what, I have great friends and happily talk to anyone about anything and can do absolutely everything I need to do in France, including getting information, now and when there was no internet.... and that is what counts.

So good for you Spider. We don't all have such a gift, or the ear for language, but we can get by very very well never the less.

[woolybanana]

I think he or she is a Klingon!

[idun]

????????????????

Listen you lot, if I can graciously accept my french friends taking the mickey out of my english accent, then I am absolutely fine with endless '???????????'s'.

When it boils down to it, I doubt I could have survived France without being self deprecating about my too often inadequate french. I reckon I would have been friendless and very lonely. 

[alittlebitfrench]

I just wanted to pick up on some of Spiders points he/she made earlier.

1) You can't become fluent in a month. Even if you think you have become fluent over 10 years (lets say), you will never be fluent. Too much slang used in French.

2) I can spot a British person in our local IKEA before they have even opened their gob. The way they walk, mannerisms, facial expressions, DRESS ! etc etc. Likewise, my OH can spot a French person in the same way in a UK pub for example. I could spot that Spider is English without them talking.

3) How can a bloody foreigner living in France complain that there are too many bloody foreigners in the UK ? LOL

The thing is, you can be fluent in French, marry Macron but you will always be a bloody foreigner living in France.

So if you want to be French, then you have to look and act like a French person and don't open your mouth. That takes about 20 years to learn.

Hope that helps.

[Patf]

I think Spider's taking mick, or that other impolite phrase.

[woolybanana]

Spider sounds like a bit of fun!

[alittlebitfrench]

I know...I thought I would just join. LOL

Nothing like a bit of humour in life. Some people get it, some don't.

You alright Patf...have not heard from you for while.

[Spider]

[quote user="Patf"]I think Spider's taking mick, or that other impolite phrase.

[/quote]

You are indeed correct.

[nomoss]

Years ago in Cannes I met a young Swiss guy, maybe in his early 20's, who spoke German. Italian, French, English, and Japanese, seemingly fluently, to a group of people with those languages as their native tongues.

He carried on simultaneous conversations with two or three at once, switching easily from one language to another. I believe he said he spoke seven languages fluently, and some others not so well.

His English was certainly excellent, and his French seemed good to me with my knowledge of it at the time.

So I was part-prepared to believe Spider. That is, apart from his inferring he went back to the NE for a holiday.[:D]

[Spider]

You are also right, not been back to the NE for 20 years and no intention of going back there anytime soon (if ever).

[Patf]

Traitor!

[alittlebitfrench]

I took OH to Robin Hood Bay once.

I think we had fish and ships in a pub.

It was loverly. I would go back.

Robin Hood Bay is as equally as nice as anything you can find in France. And I bet the food is better as well.

[nomoss]

[quote user="Spider"]You are also right, not been back to the NE for 20 years and no intention of going back there anytime soon (if ever).[/quote]

We left the UK in 1962 and have been back for varying periods about a dozen times.

The last time was in 2009, when we stayed 3 days.

It never seemed to get any better.

[idun]

Ah nomoss, where does get better then!

France certainly changed during my time there and the Uk changed during my time away, but better is not a word I would use for either.

And last time we were back in France, the traffic was horrendous. My friend had stopped driving to work, and caught the bus as the bus lanes got the buses through.

So where does get 'better' and not just different.

[nomoss]

[quote user="idun"]

Ah nomoss, where does get better then!

France certainly changed during my time there and the Uk changed during my time away, but better is not a word I would use for either.

And last time we were back in France, the traffic was horrendous. My friend had stopped driving to work, and caught the bus as the bus lanes got the buses through.

So where does get 'better' and not just different.

[/quote]

Our little town in France has got better to live in, certainly not worse, since we came here, partly due to improved contact through computers. However, the nearest city, Carcassonne, has not improved at all. It is more crowded, and the traffic is worse every time we go there.

We can still drive into the countryside on roads not a lot busier than they were 20 years ago, and the small towns and villages are as pleasant and friendly as ever.

But we are more and more aware that we are living in an area becoming increasingly less connected with the busy towns around us.