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Smoking - tobacco and cannabis


SaligoBay

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"The French remain a nation of dedicated smokers: according to the latest government figures, 32.2% of all 26- to 75-year-olds are regular consumers and the figure rises to 36.7% in the 12 to 25 age group."

A third of the 12-25 age group smokes regularly?  That's a lot! 

Cannabis is also big news just now, it's apparently very very widespread, and the amounts smoked are causing big problems.   It's certainly much easier to find here in France.

Have you ever asked a smoker to stop smoking in a restaurant?   What happened?  The last time I was smoked over in a restaurant, the woman was très costaud and had her dog next to her at the table, on its own seat.  She looked like she was on some sort of Mission, so I left her to it......

Post inspired by article about the French smoking ban and how it's ignored in Paris.  The usual Grauniad stuff:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1415452,00.html

 

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Cannabis is a fantastic pain killer and is recommended in the US for those on chemo or in severe pain. Luckily those who really need it can buy it quite easily on the black market. Perhaps the day will come when they refine the painkilling part and put it into tablets. I knew someone with MS who grew their own and no one seemed to mind at all - this was in the UK of course.
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Cannabis for Glaucoma as well, some sort of tincture prescribed in the US for many years, is effective. I know that it is effective for people with MS, in terms of helping with pain and tremors, and people with cancer, in terms of increasing appetite - BUT, and this is wierd, apparently, it works better when smoked, as opposed to in any other other form, which may be seen, generally, as preferable.

I know people who have never smoked fags, or taken any other drugs,  who have found relief from the effects of these condtions by smoking cannabis.

I know a couple of chemist type peoples, and no one has ever been able to explain this to me. Any ideas, LF'ers?

 

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Well that granny from the NE of England was putting it in cakes etc and found it efficacious. I could eat a cake, I couldn't smoke.

I wish that they would enforce proper non smoking places in restaurants, I find it very annoying when all they do is take the ashtray away as if that makes it non smoking.

And what of those under 12's, who happily buy their clopes from the local tabac without any problem at all. Aren't they counted.

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>apparently, it works better when smoked

Easy... just ask any smoker or ex-smoker who has tried nicotine gum, patches, lozenges etc. A good old drag gives an instant "hit" of the active ingredient to the bloodstream which peaks then drops off; other methods provide a slow steady trickle. The effect is quite different.

(18 months since given up and still craving the "hit")...

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Smoking cannabis on the telly is indeed very dangerous, and should never be done without a responsible adult in the room.

For anyone who hasn't seen the campaign, it's all about the dangers of cannabis, how it changes your personality etc.   In my cinema splurge last year, I was struck by how often cannabis-smoking appears in modern French films, just absolutely naturally, not to make a point at all.    I suppose it reflects reality?

As for cannabis as medicine, here's a little excerpt from a webpage about it...

A ce jour, et en dépit des menaces de poursuite des services fédéraux de santé et de police, 35 états des US ont adopté une loi autorisant l'usage thérapeutique du cannabis. Cette offensive de bon sens est accompagnée par divers média et scientifiques. La France suivra, comme d'habitude avec 20 ans de retard...  

Interesting site, talks about the medical dangers as well as the medical benefits.

http://www.aci-multimedia.net/feminin/cannabis_medicament.htm

 

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Cannabis seems to be the preferred drug here in 06 as opposed to alcohol. Both have adverse effects, but I'm yet to see 100's of people ending up in Accident and Emergency every weekend due to binge smoking!! That's not to say that I condone cannabis use, it's just that I view alcohol as being potentially far more dangerous.

As with both drugs there will be those that can use it in moderation and those that can't. For those that are unable to use either in moderation, avoiding them altogether appears to be the best option.

The argument that cannabis smoking leads to the use of harder drugs may have something to do with the fact that one needs to go through a dealer, who is likely to also deal in other drugs due to the low profit-margin associated with cannabis dealing, whilst one can simply order a beer without being asked if they want a gram of Charlie to go with it!

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I think there is a big difference between those using cannabis who are fully developed (?) adults, and children or teenagers whose brains have not fully formed.  Apparently, medically there are grave concerns about heavy use by teenagers for this reason.  That is aside from the risks of addiction to tobacco.

 

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On the whole I agree Miki, but I would guess that then, people started smoking it in their very late teens at the earliest, now, it's very very young children, and I do think that in England, the tradition of smoking joints (with tobacco) rather than pipes etc, (as in for example the states) without tobacco, will lead many of these young people into smoking fags, and that's got to be a bad thing. I have never seen any advice aimed at teenagers, advising them, if they want to smoke pot, (that should be weeeed in todays parlance, or is that out of date too?) to do so without tobacco.

The other thing is, the cannabis available now is very different from what used to be smoked. Some of this 'super' grass is very very powerful stuff indeed, and it, like alcohol, is essentially a depressant. 

By the way, when viewing a house in September, we were amused to see a rather nice cannabis plant, flowering right outside the front door of the unabashed vendor.

tresco

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Do not assume the stuff the kids are smoking these days is the harmless stuff you knew in the 60s 70s and 80s.

The new "skunk" strains available are typically 5-10 times stronger in terms of the active ingredient (THC) and I can believe they could cause (or trigger if you like) mental illness in the same way as LSD.

Aside from that, smoking any kind of dope in quantity has a tendancy to turn you into a boring hippy who talks about skinning and bong construction techniques :-)
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[quote]Do not assume the stuff the kids are smoking these days is the harmless stuff you knew in the 60s 70s and 80s. The new "skunk" strains available are typically 5-10 times stronger in terms of the activ...[/quote]

Well said. The first one, sorry second, to mention the harmful effects that cannabis has on the young, particularly the reference you made to psychological problems which can and do occur as a result of over use. You only need to listen to Susan Greenfield to understand.

There is now plenty of evidence to show that regular use of cannabis over a long period has harmful effects on short term memory, attention and concentration span. In addition it has been shown to lead to an increase risk of developing psychosis.

Forgot to mention; it's easy to spot a heavy cannabis user as they generally lack motivation and laugh at all their own jokes even when they aren't amusing.
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I'm in absolute agreement about the harmful affects of cannabis, but are they as far reaching as those of alcohol abuse?

Does the state have the right to license one and forbid the other?

Is the increasing strength of cannabis due to the fact that this market is run by criminal gangs?

What type of alcohol was readily available on the streets during the years of prohibition in the US?

 

I'm in no way condoning the use of drugs, simply asking some searching questions.

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Might of known the cjd would express no opinion in so many words,come on cjd should it be legal or not?LSD was legal until `71which means it was legal for the older folk"hippie type" until then,how many of the older type posting on the forum would admit to taking LSD while legal in the sixties.
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[quote]Might of known the cjd would express no opinion in so many words,come on cjd should it be legal or not?LSD was legal until `71which means it was legal for the older folk"hippie type" until then,how ma...[/quote]

I'm quite prepared to give you the yes or no that you are so clearly searching for when you respond to the questions that I posed in my last post. I rather fear that you'll use any response as a basis for the morality (or lack of) of the teaching profession as a whole.

Come on Outcast. I know you can't wait to find out my opinion on this one.

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What a sheltered life I have lead, I wouldn't even know what cannabis smells like.

I'm always reminded vaguely of autumnal bonfires, though perhaps a bit sweeter.  It's very distinctive.

Actually, this post reminds me an article I meant to reference some months back in - I think - le Monde talking about heavy drug use in French schools.  The results indicated very large percentage of teenagers had tried cannabis and sizeable proportion were regular users.  I would have thought British parents would be quite surprised, if not shocked.  And we've seen for ourselves that it's not purely restricted to les grandes villes either.  Our noses were alerted to cannabis consumption amongst a group of teenage girls sitting on a bench outside a public loo in the sleepy little town of St Antonin Noble Val (82), bold as brass, in broad daylight there they were mid afternoon puffing away. 

M

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>I would have thought British parents would be quite surprised, if not shocked.

I think you would be quite surprised at just how widespread it is in the UK, despite the lack of honesty and discussion there is a reason why possession has been semi-decriminalized in the UK. That is because the parents (including ministerial parents) are fed up with their sons and daughters having their futures endangered with a criminal record.... I think most parents in the UK are fairly aware of the score here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1068657,00.html

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Discussing canabis with a group of 3emes (15 year olds) they reckoned that about half of their class smoked it on a semi regular basis, but there are only a couple who are stupid enough to smoke it inside the collège. They seemd to find this normal but did say that it was stupid to smoke cigarettes.

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Miki,you maybe right on the `71 change in the law,the reason for asking is it was LSD that for the most part what the hippies in the late sixties took,I was growing up in the sixties but still in short pants.Back to cannabis from what I`ve read and seen it used to be smoked as a social thing and people would bring small amounts back from maroco and afghanistan etc not for profit but to share.Nowadays its a milti-million pound criminal business,not just a couple of mates having a joint or two,Down here on the french/spanish border the customs are always nicking wagon fulls of the stuff crossing from spain in to france with values over £2/million,its when the people at the top make the money that it is when  it is really corrosive,money laundering corruption in high places to which the money men surround them selves with layers etc making it hard for the cops,next time someone as a joint they should think were their money is going, not just up in smoke.
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Outcast makes a valid point which I think echos what Cjb said earlier, relating to prohibition. The problems are magnified when you start talking about c o k e aine due to the huge profit margins. Don't know whether France has a similar increase in use of c o k e aine as the UK apparently has.

Mistral, was the conversation with the 15 year olds open enough to suss out whether they were smoking tobacco along with the cannabis? (even though they said smoking cigs was stupid).

Miki, going back to what you said about your wife not allowing smoking in the house - that's what the potting shed is for

tresco

 

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