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Poorfrance

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I don't know whether to weep or laugh. [blink]

I was merely being as straightforward as the Original Poster was.

No point going into it if s:he is just going to bog off back into cyberspace.

Still, I suspect the OPs first language isn't English, so to him/her - I'm sorry if I was abrupt.

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Chris - I think this is a political agenda item, denying or confirming the existence of the Turkish genocide of Armenians after WW1. I don't really have a clue of Poorfrance's intentions here, as his English isn't clear enough, but this forum probably isn't the best place for it.

We get this on WW1 discussion forums quite a bit.

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By inappropriate I mean the way the debate is so often conducted - flaming from the start, very angry etc. Has France (sic) made some sort of statement recently? AFAIK France believes the genocide happened (as does almost everyone else) but Turkey denies it. Or is in denial about it. The whole topic bears on Turkey's accession to the EU.

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[quote user="Dick Smith"]By inappropriate I mean the way the debate is so often conducted - flaming from the start, very angry etc. Has France (sic) made some sort of statement recently? AFAIK France believes the genocide happened (as does almost everyone else) but Turkey denies it. Or is in denial about it. The whole topic bears on Turkey's accession to the EU.
[/quote]

Sorry Dick, yes I agree with your comment about flaming from the outset. Off the top of my head France proposes a law against denial of the genocide.

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Mrs C de Ville, you were supposed to laugh!![:D]

There are two possibilities for a French connection, there are a lot of Christian Armenians in France, at my lanquage class they make up the second largest group, they come to France to escape discrimination by other religeons in Armenia particularly those tolerant Muslims.  The second is the possible entry into the EU by Turkey so it is being muted that the French will not have enough jails to lock up all the Turkish "murderers" that will come to France perhaps, but I doubt somehoow that the the original poster will return.

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I've found a reference to this in English here.

It looks like our OP objects to the French government making it illegal to deny the Armenian holocaust, so presumably he wants us to believe that it never took place.

The Turkish government has tried to pressurise Microsoft to remove references to the genocide from Encarta!

There is a slightly emotional article on the subject at Wikipedia.

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The Armenian genoicide is one of my 'things', something I research extensively.

The reason is that my OH's mother is Armenian and I've been able to see the effect of the genocide on a family up close.  Luckily J's family are Eastern (Persian) Armenians rather than Western Armenians but that doesn't mean that they weren't affected by what happened around WW1.  The members of their family in Turkey disappeared, along with the many hundreds of thousands who the Turks said died of the flu and other spurious stories.  To understand the effect of the Genocide, think of the proportion of Jews killed in WW2 as a percentage of the European populatioon and you'll have some idea of the effect on the Armenian community.

What's interesting is that when the UN tried to have the Armenian Genocide classified as a genocide it was refused, even the UK didn't support the resolution, because of the necessity not to alienate Turkey which allows strategic airbases and listening bases on its territories which were deemed more important that Armenia.

I've never been to Turkey on the grounds that I didn't visit Spain when Franco was alive - their human rights record is still appalling, torture is endemic (many NGOs have independantly reported on this), free opposition and criticism of the state or Ataturk is illegal, writers and musicians are persecuted for their work if the government doesn't like it, it's still a major drug supply country .........

And of course, the greatest reason for attacking the Armenians was their religion - I don't have any faith and believe that anything done in the name of religion like this just beggars belief.

France regularly has news items about the Genocide, shows film etc, something that you hardly ever see in the UK where the government are happy to see this swept under the carpet.  Funnily enough, Who Do You Think You Are with David Dickenson mentioned it at some length last week and the effect it had on his grandfather's family.

Obviously the first message in this thread was meant to present the Turkish side of the argument - go see the new memorial in Lyon for the Armenians if you wish to understand it better.

Sorry if I've banged on a bit here, obviously something very close to me.

 

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if you want to learn something go there ; http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/

This is an issue between Turkey and Armenia. It is none of France's business...we will boycott you and you will see it.Renault citroen ext... You should CLEAN your dirts firstly ,,,

i want you to remember Algeria.What did you do there with 1.6 million people who was innocent ?

it is Algerian Genocide ...

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Poorfrance. you realise you are talking to mainly British people here?

So, you want us to forget/deny the Armenian Genocide, (which affected the life of one of the members here - did you read his post?) yet recall the Algerian one?

Have you tried posting about this on French sites? I've already indicated that I'm not in favour of the proposed law (on principle) but I'm not sure it"'s me you should be trying to communicate with, as I have no vote or say in this issue, being an immigrant here.

However, thank you for the link. I will read it tomorrow. It certainly presents a different view.

Did you read through the link I gave earlier?

 

 

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I think this is obviously a Turk, likely to be a Muslim, trying to stir things up here, hence the swap of subjects from Muslin Turkey (the aggressor) to (victim) Algeria, which anybody who knows anything about modern French history knows was a disaster for the French and Algeria, even though the Algerians eventually got their freedom.

I wouldn't like to see this thread locked as I think - obviously - that it's an important subject for us all, if nothing else to understand the opposition in some quarters (the Vatican on religious and the French on humanitarian/civil right grounds) as to why Turkey should not be admitted to the EU. 

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May be current news but I think it is not an affair that concerns France, other than to be a reason to block Turkey's application for EU membership.  My own view is that Turkey should hold up its hands and admit the slaughter, my Zzzzzzzzzzzz was referring to someone to hijack the thread for political purposes.

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That may be so, I don't know. It would certainly appear that a lot of French people seem to have reservations about Turkey joining the EU.

However, Holocaust Denial is an offence in France so what is wrong in broadening the scope to include the Armenian one? Again, the French Armenian population are pleased that France has taken this action if TV reports are to be believed.

Certainly Turkey has been reluctant to admit a great deal of culpability and the Original Poster is in denial too.

I wasn't attempting to hijack the thread. The thread is about France, the Armenian holocaust and Turkey , Politics have got to form part of the debate!

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