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A social no-no?


Collywobble

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Is it true (as I have been advised) that when in a social setting (or

any setting I guess) that it is a no no to ask strangers what they do

for a living as it may be seen as a way of working out the persons

income bracket?

Funny,

as it is very much the sort of question I would use in place of awkward

silence when meeting people as an ice breaker instead of my bad jokes

(did you hear about those 150,000 turkeys that got the chop

recently?...they thought all their Christmases had come at once.   boom-ta!Stick out tongue [:P])

I guess it might be seen a bit like "what school did you go to?" in N.I. or parts of Scotland?

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I have never been told this. And how could you tell what someone was earning unless you then asked how long they had been doing the job too and you would then have to work out how much that person would get after all those years anciennete, unless they were on the SMIC ofcourse.

What people earn in France is so complicated. ie two electricians work for a decent company. One is thirty and been there 3 years and the bloke doing exactly the same job who has been there 25 years could be earning double that of his younger colleague. And I don't mean that one is the boss of the other, I really do mean exactly the same job.

 

 

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[quote user="beryl"]I think I read that somewhere too once but it has never been a taboo subject with anyone I know.[/quote]

I just remembered where I read it (I thought someone had told me) in a

book called something like "A grown-ups guide to living in France" or

"..running away to France"

Come to think of it, the author had a few comments that hovered somewhere between condescending and pretentious Smile [:)]

I thought it prudent to ask, as I wanted to know if I should feign outrage if someone asked me Stick out tongue [:P]

cheers

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

I have never been told this. And how could you tell what someone was earning unless you then asked how long they had been doing the job too and you would then have to work out how much that person would get after all those years anciennete, unless they were on the SMIC ofcourse.

What people earn in France is so complicated. ie two electricians work for a decent company. One is thirty and been there 3 years and the bloke doing exactly the same job who has been there 25 years could be earning double that of his younger colleague. And I don't mean that one is the boss of the other, I really do mean exactly the same job.

 

 

[/quote]

Yeah, its a very public service mentality (if that comment causes offence, tough[:P]) my dad worked for the government for 36 years and his pay went up every year regardless. Funny, it also seemed that he did less work each year in a ying-yang kind of way.

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[quote user="J.R."]

Most french people that I meet ask me what I do for a living.

[/quote]  You sure they are French?  This is the last question most French ask, they may ask if you are married, if you have a family or where you live but asking what you do for a living is just not the norm when meeting French people fotr the first time.  It is very much an English trait which seeks to pigeon hole the person above or below the standing of the other person based on the outdated class system in the UK.

I have been asked what I do or did for a living but certainly not on first introduction, I met hundreds of French people last summer and only one, a journalist asked what I did for a living in the UK,  so to answer the OP,  IMHO what you have been told is true, it is not regarded as polite to ask a French person's occupation on first meeting.

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It is definately an English or maybe British trait to ask someone what they do for a living and I find it slightly rude. Where can the conversation go after asking someone that? Probably being bored to death, for half an hour, by the person asking the question.

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Give me "What do you do for a living" every time over the opening gambit in most of the conversations I had with people in Vietnam. There's something about "How old are you?" which makes a woman of a certain age (in this case, at the time, 41) feel somehow slightly naked [:$] . I mean, how do you know if it's polite to lie? And by how much?
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I have to disagree here.

Shortly after we'd moved to our hamlet, our neighbours invited us to join them for coffee. Their guests (their relatives) were curious as to why English people (they included me in that pigeonhole [:)]) would want to buy property there and one of the first questions to Mr Clair was 'and what do you do work wise?' (qu'est-ce qu'il fait votre mari?)

Amusingly (or annoyingly), as a woman, I did not come into the equation... my job was undoubtedly bound to be secondary to his... [Www]

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

Collywobble, wouldn't all the people who worked with your father be on the same rate though.

The anciennete is something very odd in France and started in about 1947. It exists with public and private employers.

[/quote]

Many public sector jobs have annual increments, although there's often a bar that you can't pass through without extra responsibilities/qualifications.

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

Collywobble, wouldn't all the people who worked with your father be on the same rate though.

The anciennete is something very odd in France and started in about 1947. It exists with public and private employers.

[/quote]

Many were. But there was always new ones passing him by (read enthusiastic ones)  they started  on  a certain grade and they got a statutory pay increase every year.  Very big on length of service being reflected in wages, not length of usefullness  [:D]

I'm talking 1960's through early  1990's. It was the state electricity corp. He tried to get me to work there, but I think I explainded to him that I would rather stick pins in my eyes.

cheers

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[quote user="Ron Avery"][quote user="J.R."]

Most french people that I meet ask me what I do for a living.

[/quote]  You sure they are French?  This is the last question most French ask, they may ask if you are married, if you have a family or where you live but asking what you do for a living is just not the norm when meeting French people fotr the first time.  It is very much an English trait which seeks to pigeon hole the person above or below the standing of the other person based on the outdated class system in the UK.

I have been asked what I do or did for a living but certainly not on first introduction, I met hundreds of French people last summer and only one, a journalist asked what I did for a living in the UK,  so to answer the OP,  IMHO what you have been told is true, it is not regarded as polite to ask a French person's occupation on first meeting.

[/quote]

I'm not sure that it is. I have been asked "what sort of car do you drive?" which I hear as "how much money do you have"

The other week I was at a party and  the only two things I could think of to say to the fella I was standing with were:

1) What do you do for a job

or

2) That's an incredibly short skirt you drunk girlfriend is wearing. (I have two daughters whom I adore and I'm not being sexist or prudish, it was just a statement of fact)

My polite side won and I asked what he did for a job.  I can't actually recall what he said...

From my side, it may be a copout due to a lack of conversational skills, but it's definately not class related.

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[quote user="Collywobble"]

From my side, it may be a copout due to a lack of conversational skills, but it's definately not class related.
[/quote]

LOL

I think what people do just comes up naturally in conversation and there is absolutely no problem with that.

As to opening gambits, 'what do you do?' wouldn't be my choice on a first meeting.

There are so many things you can say! It's like being a teenager again. 'Do you live near here?' 'Do you come here often'?, 'Do you know lots of people here?'.

I draw the line at 'what sort of music do you like', but shortly after those three questions I'm normally get embroiled in a conversation about how 'mad' my neighbour is, or better still, how mad English people are (or 'quirky' to quote a recent post/thread), and then swiftly on to Tonly Blair and George Bush, with occasional references to M Thatcher.

People definitely want to know how I live, but they never ask outright.  It took me a while to cotton on to this, but it's perfectly understandable given my relative youth and non working status. As soon as the questions turn in that direction, I tell them straight out I'm not one of those people they read about. 

No one has ever asked me what car I drive though. I would be surprised if they did, and it would put me off them, just as it did in England.

 

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Interesting replies here because it has nearly always been asked within an hour or so of meeting just about everyone we know here in France.  Perhaps, as Tresco says, it's because we are deemed a bit too young to be retired and the curiosity gets the better of them because they know we're not farmers.  What is also interesting is that when we answer that we rn a chambres d'hotes they always come back with "yes, but what does Monsieur do?"  It's clearly just not a job for a man!

We've also experienced it with our French B&B guests.  The Brits seem to accept that running a B&B is what we do but the French still ask what Monsieur does.

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Anciennete isn't quite that either. It is often every two years, it is an odd odd thing, it is the way to get onto your maximum salary for that grade and can take up to 20 years. My husband will never achieve his maximum salary in France. No one he worked with earned the same pay, all doing the same work, as I said, it is odd.

 

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[quote user="KathyC"]I always rather like the late Queen Mother's gambit of "Have you come far?"  Perhaps not terribly appropriate for the next door neighbours though.[/quote]

[:D]

Straight on to 'What sort of music do you like?', then.

Note: It is far, far better not to ask this question. You'd be better off asking the Queen Mums question, and be deemed deranged.[:-))]

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[quote user="Tresco"]

[quote user="KathyC"]I always rather like the late Queen Mother's gambit of "Have you come far?"  Perhaps not terribly appropriate for the next door neighbours though.[/quote]

[:D]

Straight on to 'What sort of music do you like?', then.

Note: It is far, far better not to ask this question. You'd be better off asking the Queen Mums question, and be deemed deranged.[:-))]

[/quote]

Might be better of asking a Queen mum question that a prince Phil one:

"Argh... tell me... do..do you people, um.. wash?"

Sometimes when I have lived overseas and people ask "what brings you to this neck of the woods?" I've often replied "Have you ever heard of the witness protection programme?" It is breathtaking how many times peoples faces have dropped "...Really?"

cheers

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[quote user="Coco"]

...Perhaps, as Tresco says, it's because we are deemed a bit too young to be retired and the curiosity gets the better of them because they know we're not farmers....

[/quote]

I think Coco put it very well, (better than me) the reasoning behind the veiled questions.

All I know is that I spell it out now, and then there is much ahhhhhhing (as in, 'right, now we get you', well at least as far as the money side goes).[:)]

Colly wobbles, I used to have a lot of fun in England with people guessing what I did, and me teasing them about their expectations vs the reality, but here...well it's hard enough saying you have 'been' one thing and then another completely different thing (job wise).

On top of that, jokes get misunderstood all to easily and I never try that now...one day perhaps, but don't watch this space.[:P]

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[quote user="Tresco"][quote user="Coco"]

...Perhaps, as Tresco says, it's because we are deemed a bit too young to be retired and the curiosity gets the better of them because they know we're not farmers....

[/quote]

but here...well it's hard enough saying you have 'been' one thing and then another completely different thing (job wise).

[/quote]

I gather that the French (as a broad sweeping generalsation) don't chop and change career?

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[quote user="Collywobble"]

I gather that the French (as a broad sweeping generalsation) don't chop and change career?


[/quote]

They may do, but you would never know of it.

You are better off admitting you had a Mad Aunty locked in your attic for 30 years. They'll just say 'Bofffffff'' and do that shruggy thing. Then you move on to accordian music, and all is well.

I'm kidding, but not totally... I have given up explaining my former different jobs, for now.[:)]

 

 

 

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Tresco, take my word for it, next time tell the inquirer that you are part of the witness relocation/protection programme. It is amazing watching people's reactions. I usually can't keep a straight face for long, then say sorry. [:$]

But then again, I get to tell it to American's which is unfair. The following is off topic, but I NEED to tell someone. I mentioned time zones to a woman at the bank recently. She asked me what I meant by "time zones", I explained "you know, time zones; around the world" and she was silent for a second, then slowly said "Wow".

I guess they'll be 'Boffff'n' and shruggin all over the place, I've had loads of jobs also [:)]

cheers

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