BettyB Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Can anyone advise me what the wording in the deeds of a property bought en tontine would be. Having looked through our deeds I can't find the words en tontine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegie Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 It may vary slightly but there should be something like this, the words "en tontine" don't appear:"RAPPORTS ENTRE LES NOUVEAUX PROPRIETAIRESIl est convenu entre les nouveaux propriétaires:A. JOUISSANCE DU BIENIls jouiront en commun, pendant leur vie durant, de ce bien sous les conditions juridiques définies ci-dessus. (refers to marriage state etc)PROPRIETE DU BIENA titre de clause aléatoire, il est convenu entre eux que le premier mourant sera consideré comme n'ayant jamais eu de droit de proprieté sur ce bien. La proprieté du bien appartiendra, en totalité, au survivant d'entre eux et il sera réputé avoir, toujours, reposé sur ce survivant et ce, sous les mêmes conditions que celle définies ci-dessus sous le paragraphe "PROPRIETÉ-JOUISSANCE"It goes on to say that, whilst both survive, one cannot sell the property without the agreement of the other.You may have guessed where I got this.[:D]Before it is mentioned, I have referred to a couple purchasing together but there can be a number of people purchasing together in this way.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 On p.4 of our Acte, after Propriété Jouissance paragraph, there's a paragraph titled PACTE TONTINIER. Wording starts:"Il est convenu entre les acquéreurs, a titre de clause aléatoire, que le premier mourant d'entre eux sera consideré n'ayant jamais eu la propriété du BIEN objet des présentes......"On the Acte of our previous house the relevant paragraph was titled Clause Aléatoire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I have scanned the appropriate section of the Expedition relating to my house purchase:CLAUSE DE TONTINEMonsieur XXXXXX et Madame YYYYYY, son epouse, conviennent par les presentes de mettre l’immeuble presentement acquis en tontine a titre de pacte aleatoire au profit de celui d'entre eux qui survivra à 1'autre, sans que les heritiers et representants du predecede Puissant pretendre à aucun droit sur 1'immeuble dont s'agit.Au moyen de la presente convention, arretee A forfait, le survivant des acquereurs demeurera seul proprietaire incommutable de l'immeuble ci-dessus designe, et le predecede sera considers comme n'ayant jamais eu de droit sur le dit immeuble.En consequence, aucun des acquereurs ne pourra jamais sans le consentement de l'autre disposer de ses droits dans ledit immeuble, A titre gratuit ou onereux. Et apres le deces du premier mourant ledit immeuble passera au survivant avec tous les droits en dependant ensemble toutes augmentations qui auront pu y etre faites.I might add that when my wife died, I visited the notaire, made a declaration of succession, paid the sum of €762 and the house was entirely mine. I do wish that it were otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Mine says:... celui qui decedera le premier sera repute n'avoid jamais eu aucun droit a la propriete de ces biens, laquelle appartiendra en totalite au survivant, retroactivement depuis le jour de l'acquisition, lequel sera ainsi cense tenis directement son droit de propriete, des l'origine, du vendeur. En consequence, chacune des personnes denommees sous le vocable l'acquereur aura la propriete des biens vendus a compter de ce jour sous la condition suspensive de sa survie et sous la condition resolutoire de son predeces. Pour ordre le notaire leur rappelle que la presente clause exclut une indivision entre elles et, qu'en consequence, tant qu'elles seront en vie, ni l'une ni l'autra ne pourra demander le partage ou la licitation et qu'elles ne pourront aliener ou grever de droits reels les biens acquis que d'un commun accord.Phew! Thank goodness that's over, my (English) spellchecker is having a nervous breakdown ... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I would have thought there would be a standard paragraph with standard wording for this, but it seems each notaire creates his/her own version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 seems you're right. The wording on the deeds for our present house is certainly different from that on our last house. I made sure that, at the time of the Acte de Vente, the notaire was clear that we were buying en-tontine and asked her to point out the relevant clause (which I've typed above) as the word 'tontine' doesn't appear anywhere in it. So yes, it seems each notaire does things differently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm having a pedantic moment, please excuse me. The word "deeds" is mentioned in the title of this thread.The document we are concerned with here is not a "deed" in the English sense. It is merely a copy of the contract between the seller and the buyer. It does not prove ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettyB Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Thank you all for taking the time to post your very helpful replies. I am pleased to say that I have now found the clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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