What is the movement 'Nuit debout' about?

[vivienz]

I get a weekly French current affairs magazine, L'Obs, and a recent major article is all about 'Nuit debout'.  I can understand the thrust of the article but I don't know the background to this movement and what it is seeking to do.  Can anyone enlighten me?

[woolybanana]

It started as protests about a new law that the government has passed to try and regain labour market flexibility and incidentally allow local (factory) negotiation of contracts.

The infamous 35 hour week was also weakened in that extra working hours could be agreed locally on a short term basis, as when a company might have a shed load of orders to fill and needed to staff.

This was strongly opposed by unions who saw it as an attack on their position as well as a weakening of labour work conditions.

And young people who saw the provision of short term contracts as a disadvantage to themselves and their need to get work stability (25% youth unemployment in France).

Unfortunately the extreme left decided that it was time to overthrow the state and tried to demonstrate (firstly peacefully), then to occupy public sites over night - hence 'nuit debout'.

However this turned into 'education' sessions mainly by the extreme left who want to smash capitalism, who saw this a a chance to indoctrinate some young people.

These extremists introduced their own 'security' services, banned journalists and photography and excluded anyone who might have a different opinion.

A famous French philosopher, called Alain Finklekraut, (and I think an octogenarian) with his wife, went to the site in Paris to see what it was all about but was abused, spat at, harrassed and thrown out just for being there.

It seems to be dying a death as the Bac is approaching and the young people involved have returned to their 'bloc'.

Needless to say, the changes pushed through by the government did not concern those in state employment.

(edited to clear up bl oody awful typos)

[vivienz]

Thank you, Wooly, for a very informative explanation.  I am enlightened as to what the movement is, but remain in the dark as far as being able to sympathise in the slightest with their cause.

You say 'as the Bas is approaching' - what do you mean by this?  Again, it's one of those cases where I understand the language, but not the sense.  Plenty more of those where this one comes from!

[woolybanana]

Did I really write 'Bas'- I meant the 'Bac' of course, the French equivalent of A level. The little devils are now swatting hard, one hopes, then it will be the summer holidays, so they will all be exposing themselves in St. Tropez rather than thinking demonstrations.

[NormanH]

Wiki is a better friend than WB who sees such things through rabid right spectacles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuit_debout

which gives a less slanted view of the history and ideas behind the mouvement

In particular the mention of the odious Alain Finkielkraut (whose name he mis-spells) should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Finkielkraut has some extreme views on colonialism, and might ne seen as stoking up anti-immigrant feeling

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/12/world/europe/once-hopeful-for-harmony-a-philosopher-voices-discord-in-france.html

It may be no co-incidence that he is strongly Zionist

http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/Zionist-immortal-elected-to-Academie-Francaise-348352

[vivienz]

Thank you, Norman, for the further enlightenment. 

Whatever the arguments for and against the various law and labour reforms that are proposed in France, I always feel very sad about the prospects of young people faced with that high a level of youth unemployment - a crushing blow to anyone's aspirations for the future.

By stark contrast, I struggle terribly to get staff for our small manufacturing firm and our search for an apprentice to start with us in the autumn (a proper, old fashioned type, not an apprenticeship in how to stack shelves) is coming to nought so far.  Maybe I should advertise the vacancies in French or an eastern European language!

[woolybanana]

As with all good bitter commies, Norman picks and chooses. I do not care about Mr. Finkelwhatever's views but about the fact that he was manhandled and abused by extreme left wing activists who do not value debate but fanaticism. Democracy they do not do either because they rule through the rigged meeting and the mob; want an example, see Venezuela, so admired by Mr Corbyn.

[PaulT]

Change management......

Many years ago I was a member of the EETPU (opted out of the political subsidy) and there was change in the sphere in which I was employed. The union rep said that changes were coming and it would be pointless to fight it. Always respected his view and he was right and the change was for the better.

In the UK I look at the RMT and there efforts to stay in the Dark Ages (you may disagree) and the number of stirkes, especially on the London Underground is amazing and very frustrating for commuters.

Sometimes, it seems to me that lemmings have a better sense of direction.

[woolybanana]

Now that they have helped Labour take over London, I think that the number of strikes will diminish sharply!

[cajal]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Now that they have helped Labour take over London, I think that the number of strikes will diminish sharply![/quote]

I'm sitting here doing the 'sucking air over teeth' thing with a 'questioning  glaze' on my face thinking 'you reckon?'

regards

cajal

[woolybanana]

Of course, it is only coincidence that the Underground night service in London will now begin on 19th August with outstanding issues left aside. And it seems that the delays were all down to the retiring mayor.

[cajal]

From this mornings Telegraph:

'The Rail, Maritime and Transport union is still in dispute with

London Underground over conditions for engineering workers linked to the

new service. An industrial action ballot is being held.

General secretary Mick Cash said: "There are major unresolved issues

in relation to the Tube Lines engineering workforce and it is imperative

that the company now moves quickly to address the points at the core of

that dispute.'

"RMT also still has major concerns over the safe running of the Night

Tube and there are unresolved issues on the detailed safety case that

will have to be agreed through the health and safety machinery."

Well, let's just say Khan is nearly there and as London has now returned to a socialist 

led administration the words 'off' and 'buy' spring to mind.

regards

cajal

[PaulT]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Of course, it is only coincidence that the Underground night service in London will now begin on 19th August with outstanding issues left aside. And it seems that the delays were all down to the retiring mayor.[/quote]

Come, come WB, this is down to the RMT being totally intransigent - change happens otherwise progress will not be made. How absolutely absurd that a major capital city does not have a 24 hour underground system.

Was it not a case that when BR ceased stem operations the unions insisted that the diesel locomotives had a driver AND fireman!

I understand that the basic pay for an Underground driver is £50+ and look at what ransom had to be paid for the Underground workers to work during the Olympics.

[YCCMB]

As I have a bit of insight into just how much money TfL are expected to save over the next couple of years (which predates the election of the current mayor) I'm still looking forward to finding out where he thinks the money is going to come from to pay for his very first new measure -which was the introduction of a flat rate time-governed fare on the buses. Now the night tube. Long overdue, but it's going to have to be funded somehow and the money isn't there for all the extra pay that the RMT still believes it can wring out.

[cajal]

I'm still looking forward to finding out where he thinks the money is going to come from to pay for his very first new measure

 I would think from an increase in the rate of the Mayor of London and Greater London Assembly precept of London's council tax. Just as Ken did back in 1981 at the then GLC with his and Dave Wetzell's Fares Fair scheme (.50p top fare anywhere) with what were then ratepayers.

I remember it well. I'd bought a house in Islington in 1980.  With the rate increase for the GLC Fares Fair and the astronomic hike in local rates introduced by the now Dame Margaret Hodge (Council leader Islington South at the time), late Chair of the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee (you couldn't make this stuff up!) we were paying £1100 per annum rates in 1981.

However, two good things emerged from living in the Cannonbury area of Islinton. The first was it wasn't Islington North (MP....Jeremy Corbyn!) and secondly I had the last laugh when it was sold in 2005.

the introduction of a flat rate time-governed fare on the buses.

Apparently to eke out the best value per mile/hour on this scheme you need to catch the second last N9 of the night at 04.45 from the Royal Albert

Hall. This arrives at Heathrow Central Bus Station at 05.44. Quickly

tap onto the first X26 at 05.45.(The longest route on a London bus)

This would be 23.75 miles on the X26 to Croydon plus about 13 miles on the N9. So that's almost 35 miles.

regards

cajal

[PaulT]

Hasn't the Government imposed caps on rises - maximum of 2% so the council taxpayers cannot be used as cash cows.

[NormanH]

Amazing how a thread about a French movement mutes into a discussion of things English...

[woolybanana]

mutates !

[NormanH]

see what I mean[:)]

[cajal]

[quote user="NormanH"]Amazing how a thread about a French movement mutes into a discussion of things English...[/quote]

NormanH must have been out having some more of this (hmm how the other live) with, perhaps, a little too much alcoholic sauce as he has totally missed the common theme.....out of control unions and socialists

regards

cajal

[NormanH]

If you look closely at the picture you will see that it is water in the glass...[:)]

[cajal]

[quote user="NormanH"]If you look closely at the picture you will see that it is water in the glass...[:)][/quote]

Ah, eau de vie, that kind of water.

Rocket fuel that stuff....mon voisin d'à côté plied me with some a few years ago and I've never been the same since!  Yeah Yeah I know.

regards

cajal

[Harnser]

From-Peter Foster in the Telegraph Tuesday 31st May 2016

It is nearly midnight and the sound of bongo drums is beating out across Paris’s Place de la Republique where several hundred people are drinking beer, smoking weed and - as one of their numbers says - “bearing witness”.

Witness to what, exactly, is not immediately clear. The mostly young crowd is gathered under a banner that says “Nuit Debout” – which roughly translates as “Rise up at Night” – but beyond that there are few clues as to what unites the protesters gathered under the watchful gaze of several hundred riot police.

A quick survey of the crowd reveals feminists, environmentalists, socialists, specie-ists (who oppose the tyranny of humans over animals), as well as an anti-Islamophobia caucus, political groups defending Palestinians and those still saying “non” to labour reforms.

[cajal]

"Rise up at Night”(Nuit debout) – but beyond that there are few clues as to what

unites the protesters gathered under the watchful gaze of several

hundred riot police.

There's your clue. I don't suppose anyone of them gets their tired lazy as*es out of bed till nightfall.

regards

cajal

[ernie]

Very interesting stuff. Many thanks for that W B :).

Isn't it strange how some people are very, very quick to proclaim "liberal" principles (“Free Speech”, “Respect” and so) non ad infinitum, but when it gets down to it, they are just working off a hangover or summat, nothing to do with principles.

Well do I remember my own student days, when the world was there to be taken by those interested enough to do it. Me - I didn’t do it (the world remains grateful).

Incidentally, has anyone read the El Khomri law particulars ? Especially the bit about compelling employers to provide certain facilities ? I durst not say more …