Free book delivery now illegal in France

[AnOther]

The French booksellers association, Syndicat de la Librairie Française (SLF), has vowed to sue all internet retailers offering free book delivery in France, after winning a court battle against Alapage.

The Paris court of appeal last month ordered the online bookseller to pay the SLF €50,000 (£34,000) in damages, saying that it had dipped below discounting limits by offering free book delivery and gift vouchers.

"The next few weeks will be very important," said Benoît Bougerol, SLF president and owner of La Maison du Livre in Rodez in the south of France. "We will see what the other players do after they have digested the ruling. If they continue to offer free deliveries, we will continue to sue."

At the end of last week, Fnac.com and Amazon.fr were, like Alapage, all offering free book delivery. Fnac.com was demanding no minimum order. A hearing against Amazon.fr is expected in October.

Alapage, a subsidiary of France Télécom, was said to have violated the 1981 Lang Law, which limits discounts on retail book prices to 5%. The order follows a county court ruling in January 2005, which also came down on the side of the SLF but awarded the association only €30,000 (£20,000).

Bougerol alleges that online booksellers are trying to drive small, independent, bricks-and-mortar stores out of the market. The court of appeal order shows "that the fox can no longer enter the chicken coop", he said.

Source: thebookseller.com

[daisymay]

I'm speechless

[suein56]

[quote user="ErnieY"]The French booksellers association, Syndicat de la Librairie Française (SLF), has vowed to sue all internet retailers offering free book delivery in France, after winning a court battle against Alapage.

Bougerol alleges that online booksellers are trying to drive small, independent, bricks-and-mortar stores out of the market. The court of appeal order shows "that the fox can no longer enter the chicken coop", he said. [/quote]

I am not speechless ... I am disappointed. Speaking to some of our French friends, who are mostly retired, predominately well-educated and clearly not short of money, they are quite openly astonished at how many books we have in our very small house. At the point when I explain that we gave away or sold most of our books when we sold our large UK home they are become open-mouthed with amazement saying - but however did you afford to own so many books? The answer is not surprising - well not to a British resident anyway - we either bought them new - at a discount, secondhand - at a reasonable price or very cheaply at auctions or even swapped them with friends.

I am genuinely horrified at how few books I see in French homes and cannot help but feel that if the Lang Law were to be repealed if would have beneficial, rather than detrimental, effects.

Having stuck my head above the parapet ...

Sue [8-)]

 

 

[Clair]

I agree with Sue. I deplored the high cost of books on another thread.

At the same time, my concern with a 'cheap-for-all' attitude would be the restricted choice which would inevitably follow, just as it has in the UK.

As shops compete for big titles which are a "sure-sell", the lesser known titles and authors are left behind because they do not guarantee sales, so are not worth stocking or ordering.

The list becomes gradually smaller and smaller until all you see in the windows is the latest Harry Potter next to the latest Dan Brown above the latest Jeremy Clarkson selling yet another 'Top 20 Ferraris'...  whilst the potential new Zadie Smith or Régine Desforges cannot get published because the publishing houses do not want to take a risk with an unknown...

Independent book-sellers are a high street treasure and whilst I do not believe prices should be artificially maintained in any area, there are potential limitations involved in going the other way.

For reference: http://arts.independent.co.uk/books/news/article2640435.ece

[BJSLIV]

But thanks to the French law it is far easier to find  decent bookshops, with a wide range of books, in relatively small towns.

However the Booksellers  are probably fighting a losing battle on the postage issue. The likes of Amazon will quite happily decamp to the UK or elsewhere and supply their French customers that way, outside the reach of the French courts.

The high cost of French books is largely due to the high cost of printing books in  what is, a relatively minor language in terms of volume sold. This means shorter print runs and higher unit costs.

[Russethouse]

Is there no potential for making a 'club' and posting free to members?

I do my best to support my local bookshop but yesterday I went to order the Carl Bernstein book on Hilary Clinton, bookshop £25, Amazon price £15. !

 

[Catalpa]

Five, maybe six years ago, UK bookshops / publishers were predicting that the availability of discounted books online (ie, Amazon, etc) in the supermarkets and from thebookpeople.co.uk would lead to fewer books being published, only established authors, etc. According to an article I read in a booksection of a weekend newspaper fairly recently, it hasn't happened.

Some independent booksellers did close (or were bought out by Waterstones / Ottakers etc)  in the years immediately following the nett book agreement being abolished but overall book purchases have gone up. The reduction in prices has led a group of people who previously thought of books as a "luxury" purchase to now view them more as a casual, impulse buy along with the baked beans. Then thebookpeople.co.uk - because of their affordable, same quality books and their distribution channels direct to offices and factories via agents and by leaflets in magazines and newspapers - has introduced the habit of regular book buying to a completely new audience that would formerly not have browsed titles in the local bookshop.

I love books and I love the fact that in this electronic age, book-in-the-hand readership is increasing. As I've also said on another thread, the cost of books in France horrifies me. I think books make you rich; you should not have to be rich to buy lots of books.

Looks like you've got company on your bit of parapet, Sue. [:D]

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

France has retail price maintenance in some sectors as did the UK up to a few years ago. They regard books as other than a commodity, as literature in fact and not subject to the laws of the free market. So prices are kept high.

[suein56]

[quote user="Catalpa"]
I love books and I love the fact that in this electronic age, book-in-the-hand readership is increasing. As I've also said on another thread, the cost of books in France horrifies me. I think books make you rich; you should not have to be rich to buy lots of books. [/quote]

I agree.

I must also add that the vast majority of our books in the UK were not fiction but beautiful tomes about art, literature, history, this and that; anything really that seemed interesting enough to buy, read and keep to refer to later. Having tried to accumulate the same here I find I am struggling as the books just cost sooo much - even in the secondhand bookshops. And if you want to browse it can be difficult as many of the new books are shrink wrapped, with not even at unwrapped example to peek at.

In the UK if I wanted to read fiction then I visited the library, or bought (paperbacks) from Tesco online etc. Here the library is stocked with predominately older books. On the new side there are lots of CDs, DVDs and magazines.

Regarding the diversity of bookshops, mentioned in another post; where we live in 56 these are often shabby and poorly stocked or bright and glitzy with a plastic air about them. One large bookshop has just closed down due to falling trade. And this is in a University town - I find it a sad situation.

Sue

 

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

Come on guys, culture cannot be sold cheap to the masses. As writers we have a right to maintain our rice bowls intact. Books are not a commodity but a sacred flame from our souls that must be nurtured and respected. Imagine, one day you might be able to buy our great thoughts in supermarkets. Disgusting.

[Skye]

I notice that the Book Depository is still providing free delivery to France as of today's date. Does this suggest it just hasn't heard of the ruling yet?

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

Surely this can't apply to foreign suppliers?

[BJSLIV]

That's the weakness in the law, they can't control retailers operating outside France, so as I said earlier , I fully expect Amazon.fr will transfer their book selling to Amazon.Belgium or Luxembourg.

Internet retailers are able to operate from where they like ducking and diving to maximize their own commercial interests.

You can see that in the way that environmentally friendly Tesco ship all their UK mail-ordered  DVDs,  enveloped and addressed  ready  for posting, all the way  from London to Switzerland and then to post them back to the UK just to avoid paying the VAT.

 

[daisymay]

Gleaned from this thread

The French buy fewer books than their British counterparts

Because

Books are expensive in France

Because

Printing costs are expensive printing runs are short

because

The French buy fewer books than their British counterparts

because .........

[Russethouse]

Isn't the price in the UK kept low as there is no VAT on books, where as in France, there is TVA ?

I'm not sure about printing costs either - the small Journal I edit is printed in Lorient at a very reasonable cost.

[Russethouse]

Isn't the price in the UK kept low as there is no VAT on books, where as in France, there is TVA ?

I'm not sure about printing costs either - the small Journal I edit is printed in Lorient at a very reasonable cost.

[Tourangelle]

I can't believe you guys think books are expensive here in France.  You aren't just talking about books in English are you?  Because paperbacks in French are really cheap, and we have an enormous collection of books and so do my friends, shelves and shelves of them.

[Catalpa]

No, I wasn't just talking about books in English. [kiss] [:P] I wasn't talking just about paperbacks either. Or only fiction, for that matter.

[andyh4]

Tourangelle

paperback books might be cheap in France but quality "coffee table" books in French are anything up to double the price compared with UK high street prices for an equivalent English book - which could mean 3 times the price compared with amazon, play or similar discount internet store.

My last purchase 90€ - compared with a similar sized book of a similar topic of GBP 24,95

[Bones]

I saw a gadget the other day, a hand-held screen that you can add digital books to.

That's where we're heading, and I for one would go for it! No more lamps in the bedroom, no more struggling to keep the page open.

Authors could distribute their own work too. [Www]

Hard copy print will go the same way as vinyl records....

[Judith]

[quote user="Bones"]I saw a gadget the other day, a hand-held screen that you can add digital books to.

That's where we're heading, and I for one would go for it! No more lamps in the bedroom, no more struggling to keep the page open.

Authors could distribute their own work too. [Www]

Hard copy print will go the same way as vinyl records....

[/quote]

Can't remember how long that old chestnut has been around, the book is not dead yet - in spite of every assumption to the contrary since pc's first came on the scene.  [Being a professional librarian for over 30 years, I've seen many of these sort of predictions in the professional press, and it's amazing how many times this one has resurfaced and been shown to be a no-no].  Oh, and, I gather that vinyl is now back in high demand, so Bones, you seem to be wrong on both counts!  Now back to cataloguing the books and papers which never stop coming in ....... so much for their demise!