What bike is this?

[Jonzjob]

Someone on another forum is trying to find what bike this is? The photo is from the 20s sometime. No other clues on this|?

So, come on and write yer ideas on a 50€ note and email it to me [8-)] or better still just post it on here please??

Ta [blink]

[woolybanana]

It's a motor bike, JJ. Looks like the famous Italian make started by a the famous gourmand Mr Gutzi, called Motor Gutzi!

[Pierre ZFP]

Not so sure.  The only model Moto Guzzi made in the 1920's was the 8HP Normale which looks a bit like the one in the photo but the tank and front forks/brakes are all wrong. Unless of course it was modified for say racing

[andyh4]

Given the pillion seat, I doubt it has been changed for racing - unless partially changed back.

Needles and haystacks spring to mind given the number of small producers that started post WW1 - some producing just a handful of bikes.

Jonzjob,

Do you know which country the photo is likely to have been taken in?

[ebaynut]

I have unfortunately no 50 euro note John, but its a 1920's Norton model CS1.  The number plate is UK.

[andyh4]

The OH who is much more up on these things reckons that the very prominent vertical mechanism leading up to the indentation in the tank is very reminiscent of AJS. She also noted the UK plates.

[nomoss]

Definitely looks like a Norton CS1. Reg. plate is Oxford.

I previously thought it was a Velocette, who like Moto Guzzi had shaft driven OHC engines, similar to this model [url]https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos1.blogger.com%2Fblogger%2F4659%2F3671%2F1600%2F1930%2520KTT%2520Mk1%2520%28restored%2520%29%2520ts.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthevintagent.blogspot.com%2F2006_11_01_archive.html&docid=RjXJpzNEmLAlZM&tbnid=YYT_99qoEdVUDM%3A&w=963&h=459&bih=628&biw=1360&ved=0ahUKEwjV08OzrPfMAhVEzxQKHbIPDvwQMwhuKEowSg&iact=mrc&uact=8[/url]

The title of the pic is "1922 Hooky" - is it the cricketer Denys "Hooky" Hill by any chance?

EDIT: According to Wikipedia the Norton CS1 was first produced as a TT racer in 1927 and not until the early 1930's as a road bike, which makes the date of 1920's rather unlikely.

[Harnser]

Any further clues? -English or continental?

The bike tank detail looks very much like a Norton, but the engine profile is a puzzle - it's an OHC engine but doesn't look like a Norton engine of that era

[nomoss]

[quote user="Harnser"]

The bike tank detail looks very much like a Norton, but the engine profile is a puzzle - it's an OHC engine but doesn't look like a Norton engine of that era[/quote]

How about these images of a CS1?

[url]http://www.motoclix.com/miscellaneous/norton-cs1-classic-bikes-boden-dreiborn/norton-cs1-classic-bikes-boden-dreiborn/norton-cs1-1928-3827.html[/url]

[Harnser]

I agree with ebaynut it is very similar to a CS1 Norton except that the left hand side camshaft drive is not Norton CS1.

[nomoss]

[quote user="Harnser"]I agree with ebaynut it is very similar to a CS1 Norton except that the left hand side camshaft drive is not Norton CS1.[/quote]

But the camshaft drive is on the right hand side, and if you look at the appropriate picture in the link I posted above (click on the little arrow for slide show, wait for the series of images to load, then pause on the image of the RHS) you will see that the bike is almost identical to the original picture posted.

[Harnser]

Yes - managed to magnify it and it looks Norton now- what is that vertical black cylinder in front of the engine? Can't be a horn because there's a bulb horn on the handlebar.

I looked at the hooky ref and came up with:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/14807.html

So could be but can't find a picture of him.

I would say that the date of the picture is early to mid 1930's looking at the jacket.

[Jonzjob]

I knew that I would get a response o this, but this much is a nice surprise, so thank you all for your input. I have posted the link for this thread on the forum the original question came up on, so the OP should reply soon.

The photo was possibly taken in 1926, but not sure?? Sorry for any confusion, but the photo was taken in Hook Norton, almost certainly the Hooky reference

[Pierre ZFP]

Then maybe it is a Norton so the picture forms a little jolly jape?

'Hook Norton' Geddit? Of course you do.

BTW:  Harnser, thank you so  much for your signature line.  I've got that bl00dy song going round and round my head now

[ebaynut]

For those interested, the model is a late 1920's,

they were made from 1928 until 1939, when the war intervened, so it is most

likely the picture was taken after 1928.

CS in the model name, stood for

camshaft, the one in the picture has the early engine fitted which was known as

the 'cricket bat' engine, but the engine was replaced in the early 1930's with a

new design, as it had many problems the previous season in racing.

Bonham's

sold one a couple of years ago for approx. £25K, so they are worth in the region

of 20-30K. today, originality would be more important than being

restored.

But he has a great period photo there, and if

the rider in the picture is a relation of person seeking the info, then he has a

really nice family shot for sure.

[Jonzjob]

Ta for that gen EBN. May I ask where you got it from if it's on the web??

The photo is of the OPs dad, so yes I agree, it's a cracking family shot[8-|]

[Harnser]

I have, somewhere in the grenier, a photo of my Uncle, Dad's brother, on a Norton, probably at around the same year as this photo.

He was resplendant in a pair of immaculate plus-fours as I remember the photo.

If I can find it I will scan it and post it on here.

[ebaynut]

British motorcycles are an interest

of mine, so I knew the make and model from the picture, and had a rough

idea of the age of this one.

The extra details I added later were found in a

Norton history book I have,  but they can be found here

also.

As the picture is your friends father, that makes it extra special for

him. I have similar ones of my parents and their bikes over the years, something

to treasure for sure.

 

Model

list

Pre-War (1908 - 1939)

Model	Engine	Years	Notes
Big Four (Model 1)	633cc single	1907-1954	A 475cc model was also made at some point
Model 7 (BS)	490cc sv	1914-1922	Brooklands Special
Model 8 (BRS)	490cc	1914-1922	Brooklands Road Special
Model 9(TT)	490cc	1912-1923	Belt-drive
Model 3½	490cc sv	1911-1918	Side-valve, became the Model 16 in 1919
Model 16	490cc sv	1919-1920	Chain drive
Norton 16H	490cc sv	1921-1954
Model 18	490cc ohv	1922-1954	Roadster
Model 19	588cc ohv	1926-1939	Increased to 596cc in 1933
CS1	490cc ohc	1928-1939	CS stands for camshaft. 1928-30 were the Cricket Bat Motors. 1930s models were the Arthur Carroll designed motors.
ES2	490cc ohv	1928-1939
CJ	348cc ohc	1929-1939	Junior version of the CS1
JE	348cc ohv	1929-1939	Junior version of the ES2
Model 20	490cc	1930-1939	Two-port ohv version of the Model 18
Model 22	490cc	1930-1931	Two-port ohv version of the model ES2
Norton International Model 30	490cc ohc	1932-1939
International Model 40	348cc ohc	1932-1939
Model 50 OHV	348cc ohv	1933-1939
Model 55	348cc ohv	1933-1939	Twin port version of model 50

[Lehaut]

It is always interesting to download the picture in question, then on Google images, get it to look on the internet for the same picture, or one similar, if it does exist in the system.

The search could not give an immediate ID from the picture, but it did find it on another forum;).

[sid]

Well done with the research!

My avatar shows my dad on his New Imperial "Blue Prince" taken around 1935.

[Mr Wiggy]

I know that I'm a bit late coming into this discussion but has anyone suggested an Excelsior Manxman? The reason I ask is that a friend owned a bike very similar to that in the photo and the Manxman had over head cams and the rocker cover and the bevel drive look very similar, it's just a thought. I would also like to point out that a lot of the old race machines did have a pillion seat so that the rider could get as aero dynamic as possible with his chin on the tank.