Box Joints

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="Chris Head"]

Oh Dick, Dick, Dick, such silly huffy puffy games. My offer is genuine and stands. You and Judy (or is it June?) would have a real ball here with the kids and the animals and the cooking and the banter...and of course the woodwork! I might even let you have a go of a real live, kick ya to death chainsaw...you might even discover a bit of life on the wild side! Dare ya to pick the 'phone up ya huffy gruffy grumpy wumpy hairyone!

[/quote]

hi

 ok Chris I too find you an offensive single minded person who tries to implant his views on others irrespective if they are right or wrong!!

 now you`ve had it from me as well .............do we get an invite tooo  ooo ?

 love Olive and Dave

[Chris Head]

I think you missed Antons message Dick! Anyway, enjoy your messing with finger joints and plastic bits and bobs from the States! Ever heard of chisels?[:D]

[Dick Smith]

Dave - I've sent you a PM, best way to go now, I think.

[Jonzjob]

Hi Dick, I've only just picked up this thread. Have you thought of the Axminster dovetail jig.  http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21973&name=dovetail&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0 . As far as I am aware you can do finger joints with a parallel cutter. I have one and use it for dovetails. After a bit of setting up it is easy and acurate to use. If you give the tech guys at Axminster a bell they will help and put you in the right direction, they use the stuff and know how it works.

Good luck and when you have the finished article will you post a photo to let us see how it turned out?

Edit : Thanks to whoever it was that thought that my input would help??? Not too sure about that, but I do try!!![8-)] Too busy installing a loo, sink and bits to do much with the wood for now, but not for long I hope!!

 

[Dick Smith]

Hello Mr Zjob. I've got one of those somewhere! (Actually I know where it is, it's in the corner of my shed). I'm trying to do something smaller and finer, especially as Julie may want some boxes made at some unsecified time in the future. I've had it for years, and only used it once, for dovetails, so I did think of getting a new comb for it. The method that Dave and I have been thrashing at is, when set up properly, very quick and effective, especially for 1/4" and 3/8" joints. It's the traditional method, after all, and cheap. I'll let you know how it turns out, but this week I have to go to work to buy the sawdust!

[Jonzjob]

Just as well that someone does the work?? The world needs saw dust [8-)]?

Have a look at this little jem then http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Fine-Finger-Template-21974.htm . Well I  have to keep trying to help if I can???

[Dick Smith]

And it's much appreciated. I have sent you a PM.

I'll have a butchers at Axminster and dig my old thing out and see what it needs.

Edit - Blimey, that's cheap! The white one is now the price I paid for a yellow one! £7 for a new comb!

[Jonzjob]

When I am making small boxes I use my band saw. You just cut the block of wood to the size that you want the box and cut it out from there. The finished box looks just like the starting block of wood with the end grain at the ends of the box. Very effective and simple...

I make my money boxes the same way...

[Dick Smith]

That's a good idea. Any pix?

[Jonzjob]

No sooner done than said (?).

[IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Chesssetbox.jpg[/IMG]

It's made in luan. I believe it's from the teak family and started out as an off cut from a bloke wot makes doors. Just cut the top off, then the back and front. Cut the bits out to make it hollow and then glue all the outer bits back on. When th glue has dried well, run it through the band saw again to cut the lid off. On this one I cut some fine pieces to put round the top of the hollow so that the lid hinged nicely into place.

Oh yes, the chess set. The most difficult part was making all the pawns similar, no chance of making them the same. If you want that then a plastic set would probably do. I love doing chess sets. The pieces are weighted too. The white is holly and the dark is Americal black wallnut. That smells like chocolate when it's turned!!

[Just Katie]

Goodness Jon, you must have the patience of a saint.  You must be so chilled.  I wish I had the time.

[Jonzjob]

Thank you Katie.

Cool hand St John,  that's what they call me (in my dreams anyway [:D]). It is very interesting to do and good practice to see how similar you can do them. When I turn a pair of goblets for a wedding present tyhe first one is easy. It's the second one that takes the time and challenge, but it's worth it!!

As for the time. I had to take early retirement just before my 50th birthday after hurting my back. Now I am still enjoying the retirement even if I have to take things easy. Enjoying it here is enjoying a dream!!! I have a workshop that a lot of people would kill for and the tools I need to do what I do... [:D]

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]

I have a workshop that a lot of people would kill for and the tools I need to do what I do... [:D]

[/quote]

Dont tell me your address then......[6]

[Dick Smith]

Not to mention skill and all that stuff! Lovely work, Jon.

I've just got an email back from the US company that makes the jigs (which is a pretty encouraging sign) and they will post to me, so I'm off to order a set. I'll let you know how they work!

[Chris Head]

Just great work JJ, I can appreciate the time it took and patience involved! How did you carve & sand in such small section?

[Jonzjob]

Thanks Chris. It does involve a good bit of discipline and patience, but also the anticipation and satisfaction of what is going to appear when you stop the lathe. The knights are probably the easiest as the base is turned leaving a block on top. That is then cut to shape with my band saw, clamped in the vice and the last bit carved with my small carving gouges. All the time it is kept in the lathe chuck. My saw will cut anything from 8 inch oak to matchsticks, all day.

But the object of the thread is to help Dick to find a way of doing what he wants to achieve, a small finger jointed box, and no matter what we think he may like does not matter, it is what HE is trying to achieve that is importaint! So any input to that end will be welcomed with open arms.[;-)]

[bejay]

Mr Smith.

To return to your original question, I have never found straight cutter bits very effective for removing large amounts of stock. There is too much vibration and they don't clear waste very effectively in my view. I note from that interesting little video clip that you posted that they are using a very tasty spiral flute cutter probably made from solid carbide, this will give a far better cutting action.

I don't know what equipment you have but if you can find some way of removing the bulk of the waste quickly and easily and then use the router for a final dimensioning cut I think you will find that you will get a much better finish.

bj

[Dick Smith]

Thanks - that's good thinking. I would love to use the Norm method - $5000 table saw and a dado cutter - but that isn't going to happen!

I suspect that a double pass will eventually be the method. I have got some nice new spiral 2-flutes and they do work well, and I will be ordering one for each size of joint, obviously. I think that sharpening or replacing the bits fairly often will be necessary, too.

Incidentally - I have always used either the router cutters that come with the router (shame!) Freud or Trend, but on a woodworking forum I had Wealden cutters recommended. They are cheaper than Trend/Freud, they got here in about 24 hours (ordered online) and after a quick check on the ones which arrived today they are good. A roundover gave a fully finished surface with and without quirk and cut like silk, with no vibration, on MDF and softwood test pieces. Being so smooth gave very good control. A 5mm downcut gave a very good finish (for shelf supports, using a Trend jig). I'm impressed. Has anyone else used them?

[Jonzjob]

Hi Dick, just a thought, but how do you keep your cutters sharp? I use a red DMT diamond wet stone.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21933&name=DMT&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=12 .

I've had it for years and it is good for loads of small jobs. I also have a DMT bench stone and for the first time in my life I have a straight adge on my plane blades, sharp too. They are wonderful bits of kit!!! If you were to send your cutters away to be sharpened they take quite a lot off, but with this kit it only takes a tiny amount and leaves a very good edge. It's small enough to go in the gap in front of the cutter.

[Dick Smith]

Hi Jobz.

I've got a small set I use for knife and other sharpening small stuff, but I use an oilstone for chisels. Then my son uses them...

I have always tended to replace cutters, but that has been because I have been upgrading and they get light use. But you are right, and I was actually looking at sharpening devices last evening.

Of course, I can always chat up Andy in the school workshops, which is why I don't need my own planer/thicknesser...

He has promised us (me and the carpentry and joinery year 10s) a masterclass on honing and setting up planes. Looking forward to that.

Edit: What chimpanzees?

[Chris Head]

Wealdon's an excellent company Dick, I'm still using two of their top bearing straight cutters after hundreds of hours, they're cheaper than the big brand cutters and clearly very durable whereas I've had two or three Trend cutters shattering on me.

The Tormek supergrind is a decent sharpening station, with the various jigs available it has great flexibility, the leather honing wheel with honing paste on it strops edges to marvellous keenness, and it doesn't cost a fortune. 

[Dick Smith]

I'm certainly impressed with them - also the Canadian company making the jigs - took my order by phone today. I've only had one cutter break (one of the nasty ones that came with a cheapo router) and it wasn't particularly amusing. Their range is a bit limited (no larger-size spiral flutes) but the quality is great. Very nice finish of cut.

I will probably need to get sorted on some sort of sharpening station. I saw a good one at a show once, and what it could do was wonderful. I think I can still remember some of the procedures from when I was at school (as a kid, I mean).

Or one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8CPbZg8PGo

[Chris Head]

Sharpening is one of the real basic musts. I'm not at all an advocate of sharpening by hand, apart from chainsaws. Tools such as planer knives and chisels have set angles, hand sharpening at best will waver a few degrees and produce variable results and ultimately affect the performance of the tool. A decent sharpening station which delivers exactly the same angle to an edge, time after time is an absolute must.

I now use the side of the stone on the Tormek for sharpening router cutters, the stone does the moving and not the hands, giving a much greater chance of maintaining a good edge and accurate angle.

[Dick Smith]

I agree, the amount of flap and just rounding off that goes with hand sharpening is very frustrating. Alf calls herself a 'Galoot' - everything by hand! No doubt Jon Zjob can manage it, but then he can carve chess sets...

I use a honing guide on chisels, which works OK, but a proper wheel would be better. Possibly a wet wheel.

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]No doubt Jon Zjob can manage it, but then he can carve chess sets...


[/quote]

Oh how I wish that I could 'carve chess sets', but alas I only turn the basic Staunton design. I must admit that I too am interested in the Tormek kit. Have a look at this  http://www.axminster.co.uk/find.asp . Lots of choice there...

If you are buying in France then this site may well be of interest. The price is comparable with Axminster, but the shipping will probably be less?  http://www.rbemachines.com/ .

There is NOTHING worse than trying to work wood with tools that won't cut warm butter!! My skew chisels for my turning are razor sharp and they leave a lovely finish. They are the most difficult tool to use, but the perseverance is well worth the bie it gives when you are learning.