mint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 What is it called in French, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Contre-plaqué. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Merci, Chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Anf rom my experience it's a load of pony poo compaired to what I used to get, a lot cheaper, in the U.K. If you have a dedicated wood supplier near you it is worth paying a bit extra and not buying it at the sheds.We have this one at Salvasa, Carcassonne and although much better than the sheds (bricos) is still not what I was used to..http://www.audoisedesbois.com/If you nly need small bits the sheds do cut to size though. I did get some reciently for a pair of draws I was making. Shame it wasn't quite square though[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Its also pant-knottingly expensive in the DIY sheds. Bear in mind that the price many places show is per square meter, not per sheet.The best bet I found for exterior grade plywood was Reseau Pro, a builders merchant. They will sell to the public though.My experiece copied from another thread.....Plywood. Jesus wept.I needed 3 sheets of 18mm exterior grade ply and a single sheet of 5 or maybe 8mm also. Full size sheets....1.2m x 2.5mWent to BricoDepot...prices were ok-ish - dear, but what I would expect for France, but its not stated whether its interior or exterior grade. I asked the dummy but he didnt know. Since its not stated as higher quality I have to assume its interior grade only.Went to Mr Bricolage....there are wee samples on the counter of the wood cutting bit. 18mm exterior grade, full size sheet....76 euros or so. and the 8mm was about 34euros iirc. Damn, thats dear, but needs must. I asked for the 4 sheets. "Really? are you sure?" he said. Erm....yeah, thats why I asked for it!So loaded onto a trolley and he gave me a ticket for the till. Went down and the girl rang up the ticket......"That will be Seven hundred and something something something...." "WHAT???"700+ euros.I told her it should be a tad over 250. She called the chap down. Turns out that despite it not saying this anywhere and despite the price on the samples being clearly next to the dimensions of a full sheet, that price is actually the price per square meter.So once again I walked out of a shop, abandoning my trolley at the till. This is not the first time I have done this in France and probably wont be the last.In a fairly foul mood, I was driving through an industrial estate and spotted a branch of Reseau Pro. I swerved in on the off chance. "certainly sir.... both sizes in stock.....that will be a total of 147 euros TTC".Sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Dave, you don't half tell some scary stories![:-))]I have a project where the plywood suggested is poplar. Does anyone know, offhand (please don't go to too much trouble find out), whether that would be OK for interior use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 What will you be using it for Mint? Most internal jobs just about any ply would be OK.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 It will be for fitting out a dressing room so shelves and supports for hanging rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Good luck trying to find Poplar plywood in France [blink]In fact good luck finding plywood point barre, in 10 years apart from the stuff at the brico-sheds at the prices Dave mentions I have only heard hushed whispers of a place in Amiens that might, just might sell such exotica as plywood, mdf , OSB and veneered plywood, still havnt found the place, seemingly its a secret and if I find them they probably wouldnt want to sell to me.This is for something which I can pick up easily at a dozen outlets within a 10 mile radius, all at competitive prices, not much to choose between them, normally a quick phone call and its delivered the same or next day.Here, 10 years on, maybe, just maybe one supplier 40 miles away, that might, just might if my luck is in sell to me.People look at my stock of veneered MDF like it is something from another galaxy.The thing that depresses me the most is, OK, someone doesnt want to stock something but they are not even interested in ordering it even for a big order, so its no skin off their nose if I Ask them where else I could try is it? Well yes actually its a real big bad deal to them, even were they to interest themselves beyond their myopic view, it is inconcievable that they would share the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I see. Have you though of the pine boards that the bricos sell? They would be strong enough and a fraction of the price of ply. Plus you wouldn't have the ply edge showing? There are good and bad ones of those too, but if you can find the ones with the longest pieces bonded together and avoid the ones with the short sections, probably just 6 or 8 inches long.We have a Tridom and a Weldom in Carcassonne and they have decient boards in regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 There won't be ply edges showing, Jonz. There will be strips of wood edging the shelves and the upstands to make them look like solid wood constructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Sounds good to me Mint[8-|] I don't know where you are in France, but try to find a place that does better than the sheds if you can.One of the things I turned was a ply bowl, about 10" diameter and 4" deep and it took quite a lot of epoxy resin to fill in all of the holes that appeared!![URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/Plybowl2.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Plybowl2.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/Plybowl1.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Plybowl1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]It looks quite the buis, but what a pain to do! First and last of those me-thinks [:-))] I am afraid that French ply is not all it could be???The ply wasn't 4" thick, but 4 lots of 1" stuck together, init [:D] It was a left over from when I fitted our new fridge [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 [quote user="mint"]There won't be ply edges showing, Jonz. There will be strips of wood edging the shelves and the upstands to make them look like solid wood constructions.[/quote]If you use the pine tablettes then there will be no need for a wooden lipping, I made my bookcases from them and finished them with cire d'antiquaire gone over with a brass brush making them look very old.[IMG]http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/jr7man/woodwork%20projects/CIMG0830.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/jr7man/woodwork%20projects/CIMG0831.jpg[/IMG]Of course if you can actually find plywood with a surface veneer of whatever the wood you wanted plus some wood for the lippings it will look superb, I just dont think that you can find anything better than shuttering ply in France despite it being described as marine, talk is cheap.These drop down beds I made from American white oak veneered MDF easily and cheaply sourced in the UK.[IMG]http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/jr7man/Coquelicotel/CIMG2782_zps8872afb2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/jr7man/Coquelicotel/CIMG2783_zps645f50d5.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 On the basis of all your excellent advice, I am looking for alternatives.It's not urgent. I have already waited 4 years, making do with improvised boxes and shelves so a few more weeks isn't going to deter me.The lights for the room have arrived but, alas, one (fortunately small) pane of glass is broken. Part of the brass frame is also dented so replacing said glass will be difficult.Doesn't matter too much, it's a light that is going on the side of a very large mirror and I shall place it so that the broken pane will face an end wall and be nowhere near the door.I don't mind minor details like a bit of broken glass but I do want the shelving to look really slick with a touch of perfectionism about them![:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi all, my kind, knowledgeable advisors, I thought I'll tell you that we might have a better solution after all.Just had a menuisier come and he is going to do the shelves in "melamine stratifié" so I think MDF with melamine covering which will be great. After all, it's only shelving and rails for clothes in a room within the bedroom.However, he will put in oak strips to edge all the uprights and the shelves with a rebate at the bottom of all the shelf-edging so that you won't see any joints and the shelves would look like solid wood.So..............how good is that?Not got a devis yet but he has been highly recommended as someone whose prices are reasonable.......I am celebrating with a coupla gin and tonics although I haven't had a drop of alcohol in over a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Melamine stratifie is chipboard with a pretty laminate face.Chipboard has its uses, but custom shelves and furniture is not really one of them, in my opinion.. Think wobbly old MFI wardrobes with shelves that start to sag and bow after a few months.......It can be done well, but it needs to be suitable thicknesseses and needs to be built in a way where load-bearing parts ie the shelves are adequately supported to prevent it all going floppy.Most kitchen cabinets are made of this stuff and they are pretty rigid but thats due in large to their construction and design rather than the material used.Depends on the guys skill, really. Personally, I wouldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Agreed, look at the photo of my bookcase, the shelves are 20mm pine, the same thickness as melamine chipboard (conti-board) but that would have sagged Under the weight of the books immediately, the ones I made are 9 years old and still flat, chipboard would be like a banana by now.It would need a wooden batten at the front underneath about 4cm deep and also for the shelf to be fixed to a structural rear panel for the chipboard to not bow, but the battens showing at the front would and do look awfull, I have lost count of how many shelves and bookcases I have had to beef up to take out sagging and frankly they might then be straight but they dont look good with the addition of the reinforcing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 3rd'd unless the shelves are a very short span, There maybe trouble ahead......As for cardboard shelves,(MDF or even HDF) well what do you expect, you need fibre! no not in your diet wood fibre to give it strength in the way nature intended as Chancer said real wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Thank you for your further thoughts.I had an initial devis which seemed totally disproportionate to what I expected. Now I do not baulk at prices if I thought they would be value for money. I generally grit my teeth, pay for whatever it is, and get on with my life.Yesterday, I had another man come and he suggested this melamine stratifée as something easy to look after.There will be lots of shallow and small shelves for no more than about 3 jumpers per shelf and the longest rail is a metre long.Still, in view of your shared opinion, I will ask the man to give me a devis for the cardboard and one for wood. The good thing is, if I had wood, I wouldn't need to have a hard wood edge all round to make the whole thing look better.Thanks again. I will let you know what he comes up with.Edit: forgot to ask, what is a plinth called in French? I want a plinth all round so that all the units are off the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mint, try Plinthe.Back in time we used to stick our sheets of melamine to whatever we were making, cabinets shelves etc. Back when it was craftsmanship and not just buying what the local brico/diy store sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I thought it was bookshelves, if its say 40cm span (50 max) and only supporting clothes then the chipboard will be OK, I did a wall to wall wardrobe fitment using veneered chipboard a couple of décades ago and it still looks good, the minimal deflection is not visible to the eye.If you have any double kitchen wall cupboards look at the bottom and intermediate shelves and you will see the deflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 [quote user="Chancer"]If you have any double kitchen wall cupboards look at the bottom and intermediate shelves and you will see the deflection.[/quote]Should have a centre support to the frame, at the front at least but yes a few jumpers and the like will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 My one doesnt but it was a cuisine équipée which came on a pallet, the units were fully built but they had stored the smaller ones Inside the bigger ones hence no central upright, it carries plates etc and the deflection is now apparent but not severe, its 80cm wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I'm not so concerned about the shelves holding jumpers, etc but rather the 4 rails for hanging.One full height and 3 half height and clothes can be so damn heavy!In fact, having taken on board all your comments, I think I will go for real wood or contre-plaqué at the very least. Will probably have to give up on the idea of having trims on all the shelves and uprights.Will simplify the design and have fewer shelves. Clearly something has to give and I'd rather it's not the shelves!!Back to the drawing board then............sigh.But, guys, I am enormously grateful for your interest, advice and comments[:D]Oops, forgot to add that both installers said that backs to the units would not be necessary as we have very good walls. I'll ask them to strengthen the units with some diagonals but I do like the idea of not having backs because circulation of air would be better without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Some dimensions could be handy and we could get even more suggestive [Www] pert-etra? Is it in an alcove or stood against a flat wall?Ply? There are 2 problems with ply. First the cost and second that if you have a board of 7 ply, that's a board with 7 layers, the grain in 4 layers goes one way and the other 3 are at 90º to the 4. Wood is very strong along the grain but not across it so to get the same linear strength from ply it needs to be thicker than a straight wooden board. Ply is great for draw bottoms, note I didn't say bottoms in draws [blink], though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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