taxe d habitation

[margate1]

Hi, can anyone help me please.

I feel sure that I paid my taxe d habitation on as soon as it came in last year.I always pay my bills as soon as they come in.I have got to trawl through cheque books etc to make sure.

I have just had a bill today for 839 euro saying that been as i haven't paid by the 15/12/2010 then they have added 10% on to the 763 euro owing. I never got a bill so large last year. My taxes fonciere was 613 euro.

Does this seem right and will I have to find the 839 in the next week, if I can't find my payment details

thanks

I am going out of my mind with worry

[Gardian]

To be honest, I'm not sure how anyone on here can help or advise you if you're unsure as to whether you've paid a bill or not.

As to whether the TdH is correct vs the TF, a 10%-20% higher bill would seem normal, though the whole calculation is somewhat complex. Loads of previous posts on here. 

[margate1]

Is it normal for the tax d habitation to be higher than the taxes fonciere?

I realise that you can't advice me as to whether i have paid my bill or not .I pay as my bills come in.When i get my bank statements then i am sure that I will see that it has been paid.I have necer had a bill for this much though, and if they want me to pay it sooner rather than later it don't give you much of a chance. How many weeks do they normally give you to pay it?

[Gardian]

Well mine is, but the calculation of each is different.  Too complicated and boring to go in to now.  Let's just say that the two aren't likely to be a million miles apart.

Re payment, if you've received a follow-up with a 10% penalty, then you haven't got too much breathing space. It'll be shown on the notice - probably a month or two hence. Doubt that it's a guillotine job[blink], but best to get it sorted one way or the other.

It's a bit late now, but many of us find that paying by D/D takes away the pain - I don't think that its too late to kick this off for 2011.   

[Hoddy]

Where are you Brummie Phil ? Can you go to the office to sort this out ?

Hoddy

[margate1]

No that is the problem, i live in England at the mo. I will have to phone my bank on monday morning and try and get some copies of my statements. We have never had a big bill like this before, that is why i find it all rather strange. I thought the Taxes foncieres was my biggest bill, but seems like i am wrong.

There is a lesson to be learned here for me though, to keep every scrap of paper, information,fill in cheque book stubbs, because this has come back to bite me.

I think I probably paid it this year for last year, as soon as it came in,but it definetly wasn't this high.

thanks for your help

[nectarine]

The surcharge CAN be negotiable, but you will need to ring the office and discuss. Is your French up to it? I thought I had paid the taxe by direct debit but it turned out the details hadn't gone through, so I got the 10% charge. Went to the Tresorerie and pleaded my case, just said "very sorry, I really did think I had paid by direct debit" and the woman said "no problem", tapped a few buttons on her computer and deleted the charge.

So if you know you paid the bill but it's not gone through in time you could plead the bad weather, postal delays due to snow, etc. Worth a try ... sometimes it does work.

[margate1]

Well the first i knew about this bill was when it popped through my door in England yesterday.We were in France in November and there was no letter there.I just got this one saying it should of been paid, with the surcharge on.I haven't had a previous bill.

It's like the more I think the more my mind goes blank.

We have had the house for 3 years and have never had a bill s big.

My French is ok, so will have to try and sort it on Monday over the phone.

First call will be tto get all my French statements that I am missing.This will shed more light on things

It was a bit of a shock when you feel you have paid everything and then this happenthanks for your help

[Tom]

I didn't get my taxe d'habitaition bill or any reminders a few years ago because they had an old address. Even though I had told the Trésorerie the

new one several times [:)]

Eventually the only way I found out was

when they blocked my French bank account. This seemed heavy, but the

bank said it was normal and no big deal.

Perhaps they have only recently updated your records

[margate1]

Yes that is a possibility isn't it?

I have read on here though that taxes fonciere is normally the big bill with the d habitation being the lesser.

It seems it is visa versa in this case.

I own a 4 bedroomed ,in a hamlet.

[JeanS]

I was in a panic because I hadn't received my bill - so I sent the tax office an email and paid on-line on 15 December. For some reason, no matter how many calls, emails etc. they just can't get it that the bill is to be sent to our UK address as with the Taxe Fonciere. Paying on line only takes a few minutes.

[elamessa]

My d'habitation is larger because the tv licence is added to it.

[margate1]

It doesn't mention tv license on ours for some reason.

Are you able to pay this in installments now for the coming year or do you have to pay cash now of the balance then installments for this year? I am so confused about this now. I feel sure that I have paid some sum, but only around 300 euro but until I get in touch with the bank can only guess. I wouldn't of thought that it could go up so much.

thanks for your help

[margate1]

Where did you get the E mail address from to send an e mail, if you don't mind me asking.

[cooperlola]

The e-mail address of my tax office is on my Taxe d'Hab bill, Phil, on the page which explains the breakdown of the payments.

My Tax d'Hab bill is also bigger than my TF, but again that's because it includes the telly "audiovisuel public" - about 120€

[Hoddy]

The differential between TF and TH is obviously another of those things that depends on where you live. Even if I had a tv my TH would be less than my TF.

Hoddy

[margate1]

Ok , thanks have found the e mail address.

My bill hasn't got a breakdown on it It just says

situation arretee au 12 01 2011

montant de l'impot 763,00

majoration de 10% sur solde 76,00

reste a payer 839,00

This is the only bill that I have had besides the one that I thought I had paid (but must track down) And have no receipt , but it could be in France.

Do they usually answer the emails?

[Gardian]

Ok, just a very quick rundown on TdH & TF.

The basis for both is your property's Valeur Locative Brute - essentially what your property has been assessed as fetching (p.a.) on the letting market.

For TdH, this figure is reduced by a % (according to the number of people in your household) which is applied to the average Valeur Locative for your area. Thus, the higher the value of your place vs the average for your area, the higher your Basse Nett d'Imposition will be. To that BNI, various percentages are levied for the Commune, Inter-Commune and Departement. Around here, those %'s total roughly 20%.

A discount is then applied according to your RFR (put simply, your gross taxable income). Broadly speaking, the lower your income, the bigger the discount. I'm guessing here, but I would imagine that if you're not taxable in France, then no discount is calculable and thus not applicable.

To this final figure is added the TV licence fee, but obviously not applicable if you have no receiver in your property.

TF is more straightforward and is simply the application of Commune, inter-Commune, Departement and Region %'s to 50% of your VLB. For us, these %'s total around 26%.

In both cases, there is a frais de gestion (billing charge), which is higher for residences secondaires in the case of TdH. 

If you haven't by now lost the will to live, all of the above explains why for some TdH will be higher than TF, or vice versa, even though both are based on your property's VLB.  The factors are how your property's letting value compares to that of the surrounding area, how many in your household, whether you are resident in France and if so your income, and finally whether you have a TV or not. 

 For what I hope is reasonable clarity, I have kept the above as simple as possible. Happy to be corrected on any point of detail.

[Gardian]

Phil ...........

My post above explains why your TdH is higher than your TF. 

You're a non-resident, so no abattement (discount) and a higher frais de gestion.  As to why you felt that it was the other way round for previous years, I've no idea.

The 2010 assessment will be payable now (or in the not too distant future), but you will be able to elect to pay monthly for both TdH and TF 2011 liability now. It'll simply mean that the estimated bill for 2011 will be collected over (say) 8 months rather than 10 (normally Jan - Oct). 

[margate1]

OMG

Is that simple?

Yes you are right I am taking the gun to my head right now (just joking)

Am not going to lose another nights sleep over this, the guillotine looks very attractive now.

thanks

[margate1]

With your answer in mind then

I wonder if i paid the bill last year,

Not realising that i was paying for the year before (that's why I felt up to date) Not realising that I was behind with everything.

The problem now is how high it has gone up to when nothing has changed.

I never paid so much last year.

I will get my e mail off to them tomorrow

thanks

[margate1]

Just read you message again and do i take it that I need to pay the 839 in cash then set up a monthly payment to be taken out on every month for 2011?

Sorry to sound soooo thick

[Gardian]

[quote user="brummie phil"]Just read you message again and do i take it that I need to pay the 839 in cash then set up a monthly payment to be taken out on every month for 2011? Sorry to sound soooo thick[/quote]

Precisely.

However, do pursue the suggestions from others to challenge the 10% penalty on the basis that (probably) they sent the bill to your French address and the 'chaser' to your UK address. Certainly worth a try.

I may be wrong, but you may not be able to set up mthly payments until you've paid 2010. When you do go online to do it, the process isn't hard.

[Gardian]

[quote user="brummie phil"]With your answer in mind then I wonder if i paid the bill last year, Not realising that i was paying for the year before (that's why I felt up to date) Not realising that I was behind with everything. [/quote]

Sounds like it.

[quote user="brummie phil"]The problem now is how high it has gone up to when nothing has changed. I never paid so much last year. I will get my e mail off to them tomorrow thanks[/quote]

Improvements to the property which involved a Permis de Construire?  You would then have had to declare those works complete and one bill reflected the old VLB and the other not.  Very French.

Apart from that, no idea.  With your new-found knowledge [;-)], you need to compare the actual bills for the last couple of years, incl these ones.

Let us know whether its the guillotine or the poor house.

 

[Chancer]

It also varies according to the ratio of habitable to non habitable buildings and the level of confort.

I have just done battle with the Hôtel des impôts for the second year running, my taxe d'habitation without redevance audiovisuelle had risen to close to the taxes foncieres , I managed to persuade them to declassify the main building.

I have gone from a habitable superficie of 197m2 and dependances of 37 m2 to a habitable superficie of 37m2 with dependances of 197m2, this has reduced  the taxes foncieres by 10% and the taxe d'habitation by 63% [:D]

Once I have completed all my apartments I expect the taxes foncieres to rise moderately and the tax d'habitation to increase exponentially and overtake the taxes foncieres in line with the increased valeur locative.

Editted.

I guess what I am trying to say is that all things being equal someone with a fermette say 200m2 plus with lots of dependances will have a tax d'habitation lower than their taxes foncieres whereas it woud be the opposite for someone with a 200m2 pavilion.