Olympic diving championships

[Jonzjob]

Anyone been watching the so called world cup football. I wonder if the 'professional footballers' have ever thought of going into high board diving. With some of the dives they can perform at ground level they are a cert to get a goal, sorry gold. Oh I forgot to add, if they can get a sly kick at the next diver in the process!! Back flips, double forward spirals, mud slides, the lot.

They are cheats! No other word for it. It's a shame that a GAME has become such big business and stopped being a sport. Some of the footballing 'smaller' countries have shocked the big money brats by actually playing the game.

What happened to the situation where a player was down hurt, I mean realy hurt, and the other team would kick the ball into touch so he could get treatment. The treated player's team would then throw the ball to the oponents and the game carried on. Oh what a sad git I am actually expecting sportsmanship in a GAME! Not with a billion € in payment from the TV coverage to feed the monster. Long may it be dead....

They are no more than a set of over paid, jumped up, spoiled brats! I would love to see a small country, in football terms, walk away with the cup.

John.

[arthur smith]

wouldn't it be nice, if just for once, one of the expert panellists had the bottle to point out 'simulation' and call a cheat a cheat.

no chance though, they'll call it 'professionalism' or some such other cr*p, because they're frightened to bite the hand that feeds them.

it's just what you get when there are 22 people trying to con 1 man.

arthur

ps. i thought fifa where going to crack down on players waving imaginary cards and trying to get 'fellow professionals' sent off ? 

[Tresco]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]

What happened to the situation where a player was down hurt, I mean realy hurt, and the other team would kick the ball into touch so he could get treatment. The treated player's team would then throw the ball to the oponents and the game carried on. [/quote]

I was hear to squeak the same opinion in some match or other USA V Italy, I think. Have you noticed how they bring the stretcher on?  It's all very embarrassing when they get strapped on, carried off, and then are back on the pitch after 30 seconds of cold sponge treatment.

The American who got steri -stripped (blood all over his face) reminded me of Stuart (Sp?) Pearce, who played on with blood squirting aesthetically out of his bandaged head.

Did you know that Pearce once said "I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel" They don't make them like that any more. Or do they?

[Miki]

Well I think that this World Cup has been massively better in terms of

far less cheating, than the previous World Cup. I doubt we will see the

infamous Rivaldo incident in 2002 carried out again in this World Cup.

As for the flag waving, some players have been booked already during

the World Cup for that kind of activity.

As for the panellists bottling it by not calling players cheats, 

then open your ears, Wright, Lawrenson and Hansen to name but 3, have

never

had any fears of calling players by that name if the player

has indeed cheated . Pulling

somebody down to save a penalty is not cheating, that is simply a foul,

professional or not and certainly not cheating. Infringement of rules

in all sports, is not neccessarily cheating, they are simply fouls, why

do you think that is what they are called fouls and not "cheats" !

John, do go back to ludo, snakes and ladders or whatever one

plays when one gets to a  grumpy old age and leave the rest of us

who enjoy football, warts and all, to enjoy the spectacle of the World

Cup. And please do tell us which small countries are playing the game ?

I think if you knew soccer, you would see now, that they all have

highly efficient well paid coaches and are just as professional as some

of the big teams. Apart from one or two games, the smaller nations have

held their end up extremely well and that is simply because of one

thing...their coaches have cajoled and produced them in to really

professional units.

So sorry, saying the small countries are to be congratulated by their

style of play because they are playing it correctly in your eyes, is a

little far fetched. They are mugs no more, the days of thrashing the

little countries have gone, they are now managed by some of the best

coaches in the world and that makes them and their attitude, very close

to the so called big boys of the tournament. And as for being shocked, I am not sure you are very much up to date with the modern game. All these little countries will

have been watched, filmed, play dissected and plans well and truly made,

on how to combat anything they may fear. Now that will be standard practice

for ALL teams playing, whether or not a coach/team can combat what the

problem is another matter but, as for shocks, that can happen in

football. As they say, it's eleven men versus 11 men for 90 minutes, an

organised and well coached team can be a match for even the so called

giants of World soccer. Shocks have been around ever since the

invention of the game and the World Cup is full of legendary games

where the underdog has come away with the spoils.

Now as I say, with smaller countries now coached by professionals, they

no longer all run up, all run back and generally play off the cuff,

making them easy to pick off, they play in often quite similar styles

to the rest of the World. So small country they may be but small up

top, no way these days.

Just to shake a few memories, go back to 1966 and remember the way Pele

was kicked out of the tournament, think of Argentina and the abysmal

behaviour of Rattin in particular, we rarely if ever, see anything like

that any more but I bet some Fathers were saying at that time, it

wasn't like that when I played.................

.

The evolvement of soccer and why it is still here and bigger than ever, is because of the

huge love of the game from millions and millions of people the world

over.....warts and all.

[quote]Oh what a sad git I am [/quote]

Quite right John, there is a switch which says ON/OFF use your finger

and then it will all be a distant memory for you and you can get on

with your life sans le foot

.

[arthur smith]

i think if you read my post you will see that my cheating remark referred to 'simulation' or 'diving' in order to gain an unfair advantage, and/or get an opposing player booked / sent off, as that was the topic of the thread.

i have yet to hear any panellist say the word cheat in this respect.

as for fouls, professional or otherwise, i don't think i mentioned them.

arthur

[Miki]

I have and I don't doubt it will be mentioned again before the end of

the tournament. What you mentioned had no overall bearing on what I

posted, it was a generalisation in reply.

I'll say it again, players like Hansen, Lawrenson and Wright, to mention just 3 ex

pros, will say it exactly like they see it and they do. Martin O'Neill

pandering to the TV channel, please,  do give him and others, some

credit as to their morality in these matters. They never ducked

anything on the pitch and it's rare they will duck it now.

[Iceni]

Football, as in the FIFA World Cup 2006 Trade Marked version, is not a game, it is not a sport, it is a very very big business. I read recently that the average wage per premiership footballer is somewhere around £ 650 k per year and that is nothing next to the trillions that Roman Mafioski has poured into the Blues.

Winning is all that matters and if you can do it by breakling the rules without punishment, so what ? O'Neill may show some morality while a TV pundit but such an approach is rare among managers/owners. By not condemning actions of their own players (or rarely) they appear to condone various forms of cheating.

But in the words of that great Italian Machiavelli, the end justifies the means. Though I cannot remember who the opponents were that day.

John

not

[Miki]

[quote user="Iceni"]

Football, as in the FIFA World Cup 2006 Trade

Marked version, is not a game, it is not a sport, it is a very very big

business. I read recently that the average wage per premiership

footballer is somewhere around £ 650 k per year and that is nothing

next to the trillions that Roman Mafioski has poured into the Blues.

Winning is all that matters and if you can do it by breakling the

rules without punishment, so what ? O'Neill may show some morality

while a TV pundit but such an approach is rare among

managers/owners. By not condemning actions of their own players (or

rarely) they appear to condone various forms of cheating.

But in the words of that great Italian Machiavelli, the end

justifies the means. Though I cannot remember who the opponents were

that day.

John

not [/quote]

How absolutely ridiculous is that !!

Soccer  is big business !!...Go on, you don't say. so when did

that happen, maybe around the time Tommy Trinder gave Johnny Haynes

£100 per week, thanks go largely to Jimmy Hill and the PFA of course

but up by 10 times the average players wage?

Tennis, athletics, cycling, rugby, GP motor racing, horse

racing....blimey I will type my fingers off here, if I were to name all

the sports that are massive businesses and generate billions of pounds,

with a nice percentage going to the individual and why not ?

Can't see that winning is all that matters, otherwise you wouldn't have runners up or all stations in between top and bottom.

I was involved in a work force once, also had teams under my

management (And played under some terrific managers) and one thing one

learns quickly, in all sports (not just soccer) is what they have in

common and that is the team spirit. Start slagging your own team mates off, you can lose the vital bond that is crucial to success. Sure some people will get sacked for overstepping the mark or maybe, not be up to the job, or it is time to play at a lower level or of course simply retire.

Managers will say in private if they feel the player has done something

to upset the others. For instance, this season at Chelsea, skipper John

Terry and the fans,  offered Drogba some words about his diving. 

This common occurence in the UK has come from a foreign influx of

players and is no doubt a passing phase in the long history of soccer. I remember Klinsmann arriving at Spurs and his diving record was infamous but after a

short while he realised he was actually being awarded less penalties

than he really should have been given. His previous record had referees

refusing often genuine claims, due to not being at all sure, if it was a

dive or a genuine claim.

So as one can see, diving can be a hazardous game and I believe with

the way techique in sport has been taking huge strides forward, 5th

eyes will see diving and other infractions destined for the

bin.................

Lots of words based on idealogy again John, not a lot on fact or how

sport really is today but then one has come to expect grand words on

occasion, none of which rarely relate to the post . One liners are

more your usual mark, so I guess something rattled your cage for you to

post more than the norm !

[arthur smith]

straight in at number one, and our current leader, shevcenko against tunisia this afternoon.

fantastic little ankle click, and went down so well., didn't even blush.

ironic that tunisia had a player sent off for 2 yellow cards, one of them for 'simulation'.

a contender for drogba's crown at the bridge next season...

what will the pundits say at the end ? can't wait.

 

arthur

 

 

[Jonzjob]

I'll have to look the word up, cheat that is, 'cause I'm not sure what it is in French. That's the only radio and TV we get down here. It is difficult to pick up what they are on about sometimes when they talk really quickly.

Here we are,    for a player = tricheur. No I don't remember hearing that mentioned, but as I said it is difficult sometimes. The France/Togo match was a goodie and played with good spirit.

John.

[Miki]

I really do find it extremely sad that during what is proving to be a

really excellent World Cup, there are always those that are looking to find faults with

a few players that are stretching the  limits. Why not try and

watch the game for the superb spectacle it is, or why not just turn the

TV off and do some work in the garden or simply do something you

do enjoy ?

If these folks had cared to watch football a little more studiously over

many, many years, they would know that this is not a new happening. In

the early 70's I can remember discussing at length with a few "experts and commentators"

and exactly the same things were brought up then. Difference

today.................well, for starters we have slow mo, there are

cameras in all parts of the ground, better panels of ex pros, more competitive

games with much faster play (that is to say, we longer can expect to

beat countries like Luxembourg or Saudi for instance, by scorelines of

10-0), a simple tap on the ankle at speed would knock you over, have no

doubt about that. Games are picked at, mulled over by back room staff

and entered up for discussion later.

In other words the microscope today is turned up and nothing can

escape the attention of the cameras, close ups and slow mo do not tell

the full story on many occasions.The refereee has a split second to

judge and make a decision, good refs make less poor decisions but for

others not so good, they are shown up quite badly. Now transfer that to

the players themselves, what never showed up years ago with a deft

trip, a sly tug, sledging, shirt pulling and so on, now shows up

easily, same for diving, slowly and surely, parts of the game

not so nice will be outlawed and disappear but have no doubt, that a

person who never played the game at this level won't understand that

some tackles that look innocent and effected a dive, were

actually fouls (not cheats) and as I said at speed, it takes very

little, to cause one to go over. Foul or not, players have always

sought to seek an advantage and it is the referees job to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Armchair refs are two a penny, especially now, with all the amount

of  TV assistance they have, people with a grumble about football

have enough to be grumpy about.......well the football just isn't

enough for them is it !