Kathryn Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 we have found a house in the var and have been to see it twice. We have now returned to the UK and have a mortgage in principal against our UK house. I am now trying to converse with the estate agent in france and have been asked to complete an 'offre d'achat' - is this legally binding? At what stage do we need to sign paperwork with a notaire in France (I'm a teacher, so it would have to be at the end of October!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I don't think it's legally binding but more of a record of your offer so that the agent can proceed. It's paper trail proof that you made the offer by that agent too, in case you decide to buy it with another agent later. We signed one of those, the seller accepted and we were in with the notaire to sign a compromis de vente a week later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Anything you sign is legally binding. This would enable the vendor a guarantee that you are committed to buying and once your deposit is paid,should you pull out, the vendor receives that deposit as compensation.Obviously there are periods between signing and when it becomes legally binding due to financial arrangements to be made etc but as always here, anything signed is legal and could be used against you. I suggest you make your travel arrangements known asap tothe immo and to the vendor in case this is not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 That sounds more like a compromis de vente, Val. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hmm - just looked it up on a couple of advisory sites and they say it is binding once the seller accepts the offer, if they accept within the acceptance period defined in it. So you need to be careful about what is written in it and make sure anything which the offer is subject to is included in it (clause suspensives, finance being found etc). This site explains it well: http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/contents/immobilier-acheter-logement/a20-les-risques-de-l-offre-d-achat.php3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 This bit explains that it can be retracted before it's been accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 [quote user="Val_2"]Anything you sign is legally binding. [/quote]Val is right in that the offre d'achat is a legally binding paper. The purchaser can withdraw but will owe the vendor costs and, potentially, damages - for time lost etc. See here.Kathryn ... are you paying full price for the house or have you made an offer.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Welcome to the forum.To understand the buying process see hereAFAIK the offre d'achat is a legally binding document and IMO you would be ill advised to sign it at this stage as doing so may take away your rights to subsequently withdraw if something detrimental turned up later in the process.The normal route is by a compromis de vent which contains any conditions agreed between you and the seller, such as you needing a mortgage and retaining the right to withdraw without penalty if you cannot secure one. Other things like a fosse septique for instance can be mentioned where the seller can be made responsibility to bring a non conforming one up to standard. In essence you or the seller can set out in the compromis virtually any conditions you have agreed upon and the document is then normally signed by both parties at the Notaires office. It's also possible to do it by post but only after the compromis has been drafted and agreed to which obviously takes time.I guess how you proceed depends on how set you are on the property and how sure you are that there are no currently unknown factors which could cause you to change your mind about buying it. If you are happy to commit to the property regardless then it doesn't really matter what you sign.The other side of the equation is that until you do sign something the seller is completely free to sell to another buyer if one appeared and in the current climate for a seller a bird in the hand is definitely worth two in a bush !We have one or two Immos here on the forum and I'm sure they will be along with their input too.Bonne chanceEDIT: I got interrupted between seeing the OP and sending my reply so didn't see any of the interleaving responses so apologies for any repetition ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I bought a house recently and unlike the last time I bought (2005) all of the diagnostic reports were available to view when I saw the property, so I already knew whether it had termites, lead, asbestos, needed a fosse or not and what state the electrics were in. This meant that all that was left to mention on the offer document was whether I needed finance or not. I had a clause inserted to say that as I was using cash from a sale which was in progress (compromis de vente signed but awaiting SAFER clearance before the final acte could be signed) then the offer was dependent upon my needing a mortgage if that sale fell through. The clause was only necessary because the straightforward tick box of 'subject to financing' wasn't directly applicable.The way the agent explained the offer document to me was that it was a written record of my offer and as I wanted a quick purchase, it would mean the seller would commit asap and then we could proceed to sign the compromis de vente asap. I was certain that I wanted the property at the price I offered so I had no problems if it was binding. I didn't get the impression that the agent thought it was particularly binding (one of the sites I read earlier, before putting the legal rights site up, said it is rare for a seller to pursue a buyer who drops out after they have accepted the offer) but I would have felt better myself if I'd realised it was at least a bit binding on the seller once they accepted! I suppose it's better for the agent too because they have a record of the offer being made through their agency and it also shows that the buyer is serious.With the new requirements to have all the diagnostics in place before signing a compromis de vente, perhaps the offre d'achat will take over and the CDV won't be used so much but we'll just go straight from offre d'achat to final acte. This actually happened to me when I bought some land a couple of years ago. I turned up at the notaire's office without my cheque book because I didn't realise that I was there to sign the final act and he'd just skipped the CDV stage! He said I'd made an offer and the vendor had accepted and a CDV wasn't really necessary; it was quicker to just go straight to the final act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 [quote user="suein56"][quote user="Val_2"]Anything you sign is legally binding. [/quote]Val is right in that the offre d'achat is a legally binding paper. The purchaser can withdraw but will owe the vendor costs and, potentially, damages - for time lost etc. See here.[/quote]To be clear, Sue - you posted exactly the same link I did and what it says is that the offer is binding IF the seller accepts it within the time period stated in the document. If the seller makes a counter offer or exceeds the time stated in the document then the buyer is not bound by the offer. The document can include the usual standard clauses that the offer is for exactly what is stated in the estate agent's details and subject to no dodgy servitudues coming to light, any further surveys required being satisfactory and finance (or anything else you want in a clause suspensive). When the seller accepts the offer it becomes a contract subject to those clauses and then the buyer still has the usual 7 days withdrawal period. If the buyer is serious there is no reason not so sign an offer to buy that I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 As a seller, if I had two identical offers of an acceptable amount and only one buyer was prepared to put their offer in writing: that would be the offer I would take seriously and accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Thank you all - it's gone a bit quiet at the mo as the vendor is not willing to negotiate at all on the price even though there is a load of work to do (built in the 70s and not had anything done to it since then - think brown and orange with antiquated electrics etc). Haven't signed anything, but the immo tried to talk to them and they wouldn't budge. Oh well, will wait it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 If the won't budge, don't buy unless you really, really, really want it! Tons of stuff on the market and prices seems to be falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Good news - we upped our offer (met seller half way) and the offer has been accepted (not sure whether to be petrified or excited!). mortgage is in place as it is in the UK and secured on our UK property. hopefully, the millions of questions I've asked over boundaries, rights of way etc will come back clear and then we're ready to sign!neither us nor the vendor is in a chain - any ideas of how long the process takes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 If it's any help we signed our compromis on 23 or 25 Jan of this year and the Acte on 5 April; so about 10 weeks or so.Good luckSue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 could be 4-8 weeks if your mortgage funds are available quickly and it's therefore like a cash purchase in France. Did you sign an offer document then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprogster Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Until I saw that you had upped your offer, I was going to advise you hold out, as property prices in the Var where I am, are down over 20% since the peak in 2008 and forecast to weaken further. With the cold winter months approaching, I would have been confident the sellers would have come back to you if you had held your nerve!Meanwhile, you might want to buy your Euros forward if you have not already, as the £ seems to be weakening a bit at the moment.Having owned two houses in the Var over the last ten years, the only advice I would give is budget carefully for any building works, as everything is a lot more expensive in the South of France and the Artisans tend to quote a higher Anglais price if you are not local!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (built in the 70s and not had anything done to it since then - think brown and orange with antiquated electrics etc)If you get the electrics to the normes the money will be sensibly spent.Don't think for a moment however that anything you spend on fripperies such as a temporarily fashionable colour scheme or a bathroom or kitchen that is anything more than the basics of plumbing and electricity will add anything.The next buyer (if you are lucky enough to get one) will simply tear out what you thought was nice and install hie/her idea of whet is nice...and will probably think as you do now that there is work to do.[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hi Sprogster. Thanks for the advice - we still haven't gone up to the asking price though. We're lucky in that we have some Brignolais friends who could hopefully help us out with some recommendations for workmen. I also foresee numerous trips to M Bricolage!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hi Norman. We are keeping our UK house as our main house, so our intention was to buy large quantities of white paint and a basic kitchen for this house. To be fair, the bathroom suite is at least white so with a bit of a scrub it should be ok. At least there is nothing structural to be done as the house looks pretty solid (OH is an engineer so has had a good old poke around!)thanks for the suggestions though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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